Fine, I can deal with the titling issue. As to whether they were classified as either at the time the thread was posted - someone can check the dates.

I can also deal with Forum members making product, vendor/manufacturer reviews, etc. I don't agree that Forum Member should be allowed to openly direct business from one vendor to another - whether it be Webb, or M7 or Way.

You made an announcement for DDM not knowing whether or not they were signed on as either a Vendor or a Manufacturer. This is different from saying you got an HDI from DDM and were happy with it - you directed business away from a known, paying Vendor on this site. You publicly hinted that the HDI would not be available from WMS knowing that there were issues between them and DDM.

Excuse me, you can't thrust yourself in the middle of this "controversy" by starting a thread and then backing off when it generates some heat. Dave did not come on this Forum and declare himself the developer of the HDI kit - you did. You openly advertised his available stock, the price and his contact information. You even, on the first post of this thread, hinted at the distribution issue.

I would have no issue with Dave posting that he was selling HDIs as a vendor or a manufacturer regardless of any issues between him and WMS. I have an issue with you doing it for him. If these are the rules from now on fine - my opinion - they stink.

Whether you agree or not, you have done DDM a disservice.

Earlier you requested that the thread be locked. How about it be deleted and Dave can post his own announcement?

 

Geeze! Nitpick much? You raise an issue....it's quelled. So, you insist on raising another. Your motives here are clear.

I for one don't want members not telling everyond about deals they find, just because the seller isn't on her advertising. Example - Tire Rack doesn't sell BBS CV wheels. Speedware Motorsports does. Should I not post that because Speedware is more of a Porsche racing company than involved here? That's ridiculous!

The first time DDM posted, they had official status. Even if they didn't....SO WHAT? Move on to some other e-battle man....it's getting old.

Bottom line - the HDI rocks. DDM picks up the phone when you call. DDM is here to support the MINI community and has some bitchin stuff on the way. What more could you want?

 

Hokay...anyhew...

Sort of back on topic...

I like the design of the HDI and I will most likely get it after the M62 But for now I am stuck with my current set up.

If anyone has installed the HDI and has the stock plastic mount that it replaces, and they want to get rid of it. Please let me know as I am working on a project and I want to lower my ECU and use the stock cover (I have a strut brace that hits). I am also going to build a heat shield for my current CAI. Thanks in advance.

And if you kids can't play nice, I am going to turn this car around...!

 

Ain't that the truth. Show some self-control. If everyone got a workout from jumping to conclusions, people wouldn't have to walk/run as often.

 

"You made an announcement for DDM not knowing whether or not they were signed on as either a Vendor or a Manufacturer. This is different from saying you got an HDI from DDM and were happy with it - you directed business away from a known, paying Vendor on this site. You publicly hinted that the HDI would not be available from WMS knowing that there were issues between them and DDM."

Let me be clear.....

I trust Dave and I asked him before the first post if he was legal as manufacturer/vendor on NAM and he assured me he was..... there was no ambiguity if he was or not....he was.....and "Dave" the moderator confirmed this....

If you would like to discuss this offline in PM world that would be fine with me....

 

Webb's online catalog says (at the moment) that they have 13 HDI's in stock...

Also, just a observation about all this - someone said earlier that there are lots of reasons that dealers and manufacturers/distributors decide to part ways -- IMHO, this is a repeating pattern with WMS:

WMS hypes Powerchip and sells a bunch --> WMS and Powerchip part ways
WMS hypes Alta products and sells a bunch --> WMS and Alta part ways
WMS hypes HDI and sells a bunch --> WMS and DDM part ways

What's next?

 

"WMS hypes Powerchip and sells a bunch --> WMS and Powerchip part ways"
"WMS hypes Alta products and sells a bunch --> WMS and Alta part ways"
"WMS hypes HDI and sells a bunch --> WMS and DDM part ways"

I haven't heard anything about WMS and Alta or DDM but if I remember correctly, Powerchips pitched a hissy fit when Randy decided he was going to sell Uni-chips as well as Powerchips. They were the ones who terminated the business relationship. I believe this because Powerchips is known to be less than enthusiastic about servicing a Webb/Powerchip problem. Having said that I have never needed a reflash as my dealer knows it is forbidden to mess with my ecu.
I have read most all the threads and having worked with the public I take EVERYTHING I read with a grain of salt. I would like to see the difference in hp and torque between the HDI and the Alta. I can't believe they would be much different on a typically modded car.

The beauty of our world is choice and the ability to exercise choice.

 

Glad I missed all the fuss....

Back to our normally schedualled programming...

Matt

 

OK.... Can we just let bashing come to a halt??

 

For your amusement read this.

 

[quote=Brian@WebbMotorsports]Part time? Were you at your shop till 1am this morning and back at it again by 9:00?

This to me looks like part time .

Webb Update
I wanted to let everyone know due to lack of man power and personal schedules, we will be out of the office on Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and until 1pm on Thursdays for a couple weeks.

 

I have unsubscribed from this thread......I am still available through PM but I will no longer will follow the posts.

 

Any update on the exhaust resonators?

 

Way to go you feckin goobers

We had someone here that was using his car as a mule and giving us updates on a new product. Now stop the damn bickering and thread hijacking and let the original intent of this thread get back on track!

 

You're thinking of the M62 thread..........

This thread was an announcement for the HDI - the manufacturer stopped doing business with the original vendor. A forum member made an announcement as to where the HDI could be bought. Except for the comment about the resonator, just about everything in this thread has related to the HDI.

The only "Mule" that relates to the HDI was the red one in Colorado. The "mule" that relates to the M62 is by another gentleman who posted in the M62 thread.

 

How about spelling my motives out? Seriously Margie, my beef here is simple - and I have no issues with DDM.

..........and nothing's been quelled - I still disagree with a Forum member posting a Vendor announcement. I disagree with a Forum member inserting himself in a feud between two Vendors to the benefit of one or the other. I would have had the same issue if it had been done to the benefit of WMS or M7 or Helix. So how about keeping your prejudices in the same old bag you keep that overused eyerolling emoticon you're so fond of?

May I respectfully point out that your example is invalid? In the case you are illustrating, Tire Rack isn't selling the same product as Speedware MS. If they were, you posting a thread informing people that they could bypass a paying site sponsor amounts to free advertising for a Vendor who is not supporting your community. That would be so uncool.

Let's put it this way: if the manufacturer of the M7 catback had a falling out with Peter and Randy and a Forum member posted a thread announcing that the system could now be bought directly from the manufacturer (who miraculously just was in the process of signing on NAM as a vendor on the heels of the split) I would have the same issue.

No they didn't - go back and check who made post No. 1 - hint - it wasn't DDM. If they had their status, why didn't the make their own announcement?

Yes the HDI turns the Mini into an asphalt chewing monster. Yes I'm sure Dave picks up the phone when you call and yes he seems to be supporting the Mini community for the whole six weeks or so he's been involved with it.

Now it's my turn to question your motives - which Vendor are you taking a dig at? Which vendor are you insinuating doesn't pick up the phone? Which vendor doesn't support the Mini community?

 

True I was thinking about the M62 and "updates", and he had the HDI and gave us his opinion. But I am tired of all he bickering and he said she said.

The intention of this thread was to announce that the HDI could be bought through the manufacture I agree. But there is much public vender slamming for me...

Frodo out

 

I have conversed with Dave via PM several times and have no quarrel with him. Any issues he has with other Vendors are his business.

If Dave, as the manufacturer of the HDI decides he wants to become a Vendor on this site and sell directly, that's his perogative.

If he wants to make his own Vendor Announcement stating this - so be it.

Having a Forum Member make a Vendor Announcement is wrong. Bob is free to do whatever he wishes and I am sure there was no malice or ulterior motives involved in starting the thread. At one point or another he has posted in favor of just about every Vendor here and I think it's perfectly acceptable to post opinions, good or bad, about Vendors or Products. This is different.

WMS has claimed they has some input into the design of the HDI. So what is to stop me from posting thread stating:

"WMS, the idea man behind the HDI is selling his entire inventory of these intakes. While he is currently in a dispute with the Manufacturer (who doesn't even own a Mini) he will be selling these units at $199.00. He currently has 61 in stock and takes MC, Visa and Paypal. He can be reached at home, 24 hours a day at (666)666-6666."

Apparently, nothing...........

 

when SC porting was all the rage, I found Steigmeier, and posted all the contact information and price for all. At that time, you could only buy from M7 or Endyne. I did it to be nice to the community, as there are lots of vendors out there that sell to wider markets than just Mini and may not even be aware of our existance here. In the end it turns out that Steigmeier is who does M7s SCs..... But I'll admit the possibility that some may have gone straight to Steigmeier instead of M7. And Peter and I are still on good terms!

Some have posted about AJUSA.com for K&N products (real cheap and free shipping). I and others have referenced eBay to get Densos at a significant savings over the vendors here.....

So what's the point of all this? Well, that while there are vendor rules and the like, the area of pointing out other market sources for product that isn't from a registered vendor is in a very grey area. If talk is limited to only registered vendors, the value of learning here is greatly diminished. If anyone can post about any product, there's no value in the vendor status. Seems to me the only workable solution is that people can talk about what they've found in the market, and vendors can only talk about their stuff directly if they register.

Alta didn't fold when Webb switched to other vendors, and the HDI finds channels to the market when the manufacturer and the sales channel no longer see eye to eye. Life goes on, and it's certainly not worth the bandwidth that has been spent on the issue.....

FWIW, I'll keep posting finds, even if they don't come from a registered vendor, and I sure hope others do to. While it's nice to keep the vendors in business, it's not our responsibility to shield them from the competative forces in the marketplace.....

Another way to put it is that if anyone thinks I'm spending $12 a plug for densos, they're smoking crack, no matter how much they've contributed to the Mini community!

So on the posting that you can get the HDI direct from DMM? Great stuff! Keep it coming. Remember, markets only work if there is unfettered access to information...... Personally, I don't care who buys from which supplier. Everyone can make their own decision there. But you have to know that there are options to be able to make the choice.

This one is muddied more by never to be completely clear partitioning of the product design work. And while that is true, it doens't matter for squat. It only matters if the parties agreed to some sort of partitioning of the design content or IP. If this didn't happen, anyone can go knock them off! That's the market for you. But that's also an issue that doesn't get played out here. I haven't seen any patent claims on this sucker, so I guess it's a free for all, like it or not.

So lets all take a deep breath, and go back to bitching that the DFIC numbers aren't here yet!

Matt

 

Skiploder,

I want to aknowledge your point.....I "see" how you feel and perhaps it could have been handled differently..... in an effort to get the discussion back on track....olive branch extended,......what would you like from me


Bob

 

Group buy on a HUG? Or is it group hug?:impatient

 

EDIT - Nevermind. Moving on.

 

Oh, and Margie? If you want to become a vendor, please do so. The more, the merrier!

 

Bob:

I want to be clear in stating that I don't believe for a second that you started this thread with the intent of any wrong doing.

You are an avid member of this community and have posted positive things about about every vendor you've done business with.

Olive branch accepted - but seriously, the only issue I had was with the Mods allowing the thread to exist without modifying it.

 

Let's put this to bed - I acknowledge that this is a grey area for some.

Unfortunately the number of Vendors servicing our community is small - for a reason. The amount of money you can make selling go fast parts and accessories to Mini owners is somewhat limited. Add to that the fact that this Forum is the best way to gain access to a customer base and it necessitates self-control and rules that you don't find in an unlimited marketplace.

While free-wheeling open competition among Vendors may seem like it benefits the consumer - it only does so in the short run. In the long run, it makes the business of catering to the community less profitable and negatively affects the people activley seeking to bring new products to the market.

See, I have an issue with the supercharger example you brought up. Let's say another forum member takes it a step further and posts that five of the prouducts that Horvath and Terwilliger have brought to market can be bought cheaper directly from the manufacturer. That member makes a Vendor Announcement and encourages the manufacturers to apply for Vendor status (no, I'm not accusing Bob of doing this - it's hypothetical). They use the cred that M7 has built up on this Forum as a launch point for their product. They have used and abused the Vendor status on this Board in a way that affects an integral contributor to this community.

Is this fair to M7? Do you agree that this hurts their business? Who gives a rip that the average forum member can save $5.00 on the item - you've just made M7's business a tad less profitable and you've just made it that less lucrative to do business with this community. Many of the dedicated Vendors here have put their time and efforts into servicing this community. The forum rules here, I believe, are in place to reward people like this. Some restraint needs to be shown in revealing the sources of these products and directing memeber away from entreprenuers who are pushing the product develpment limits.

In the case of the HDI, WMS has been at the forefront of pushing this product to the community. DDM as the manufacturer wins whether they sell the intake or Webb sells the intake. The HDI has name recoginition on this board because of Webb. He has spent his time advertising it, promoting it and installing it. DDM has benefitted from that relationship and from Randy's status as a Vendor on this forum. Regardless of whatever issues exist between the two companies, you can surely recognize the importance of this relationship and the need to let these Manufacturers and Vendors work out their own arrangements without interference from the Forum members.