My comments were about the DFIC...... I never fully completed the AGS install

 

What did you do?? Re-installed ur previous intake?

 

that is the plan... go back to the HDI and do dyno runs for deltas...... then proceed....... I doubt they will dyno th AGS...... sice they have a proprietary tube and the car will be fitted with an HDI.... for those of you who don't know this is the company that developed the HDI

 

I'm sorry I must have mis read your post. What kind of numbers did you make with that interesting intercooler?

 

Don't tell me you depend on a G-Tech to do testing. Just wondering but why would you believe a G-Tech over a dyno?

 

airflow. I measure the car the way I use it. Other than Dinan, I haven't seen a single dyno room that has something that replicates the airflow of real driving.

I'm a physicist. What's different than using the mass of a roller, vs the mass of the car? they are equivalent.

Also, if you dig into this deeply, the best way to use any of these things is to look at changes, not absolutes. Mustang vs Dynojet. Good fans vs poor or no fans. IC sprays, etc, make most dyno runs apples to oranges comparissons.

I guess to change it around, why don't you trust accelerometer based performance measurement?

For me, having a G-tech and a place to use it means there is no limit on the number of runs I can do. For some IC testing, I did about 50 runs. That would have cost more in dyno time than the G-TEch cost new!

Seems to me there are two best ways to test things: Straight line acceleration, and lap times at a road course....

Matt

ps, if I do my staging and car conditioning right, I can get peak HP and torque to agree with a standar deviation of less than 2%. From what I read about dyno and engine testing, that's pretty good.

 

Spidy, I hope you are updating your signature accordingly -

 

Well, that might save me a couple bucks

Seriously though will the current HDI and tube work with this unit and if so will the price point be different?

In reality this is a "future" question and I don't expect an answer now but you knew someone would ask.

 

it looks like they used a stock airbox and the stock airbox to TB hose (although stressed a bit). I guess that if this works it's way into the final kit, most CAIs will work, but you may have issues with the custom Silicone hoses like Alta sells as an option....

Matt

 

Wow.... Maybe someone should tell all the tunners out there to sell there dyno and buy a G-Tech... I disagree with doing research with something that attches to your windshield.

 

Still have my stock hose if need be but I'm thinking(hoping) along the same lines.

Speculating can be fun. As long as expectations aren't set based on guesswork.

 

Somethings up in North Carolina

 

So exactly how would you propose to compare differences on the highway, at speed?

What dyno can duplicate that event, especially with our intercoolers?

I've done LOTS of dyno runs over the years, and I have an answer for you.

None. Nada. Zero. Zip. Zilch.

I understand the development value in the dyno. Been there and done that over 15 years ago.

In fact, I just went through an entire Unichip reprogram on the dyno to establish a better baseline.

It's too bad you can't see the possibilites for real world comparisons with real world usage.

 

I understand replicating real world situations. But as far as the G-Tech goes it attaches to your windshield by suction cups and plugs into your cigarette lighter. The variables that could change with this (start position, questionable mounts, non regular voltage).

However what I am tired of is Vendors and memebers of this site making claims about products and showing no numbers. It seems to me that this site has more bench racers then people that want to actually get out there spend the little extra money and see what works.

 

But on our little cars, if you don't simulate REAL airflow, the numbers are worthless for anything than comparing the same testing environment at another time. You get to control more of the environment with a dyno. But if you don't do it right, on intercooled car like ours with a lot of electrnic mothers in law, the numbers will be suspect. How many times do you see the second run 5 hp or more different than the first run? Lots. That's because little car has been taken to ensure that coolant temps, AITs and the like weren't identical between runs.

So I go drive a loop under cruise control to set the car in it's baseline state. If I have to waite too long (I use a freeway onramp) and IATs go over 10 degrees higher, the power run will be useless.

Now, you tune and mod, but one of the things you've done here is not repeat what I said accurately. I never said dynos are worthless. Heck with NA cars, you can get real, real good results with little effort. As you go to turbos and SCs with ICs, the testing regimin becomes much more rigorous.

Here are some things that aren't covered by the dyno.....

1) Air resistance
2) Rear wheel drag
3) how much do you tie down the car, and what does that do to actuall wheel/tire diameter.
4) If you really tie down the car so you can dyno high HP, you put more energy into tire deformation than when you drive.
5) If you use an inertial dyno (like a dynojet), rotational moments take a different amount of energy depending on how fast you accelerate.

The list is practially endless. The point here isn't that one is better than the other, but that to use each tool properly, you have to understand it's strenghts and weaknesses, and change your testing regimin accordingly.

another motivation for G-Tech. I could never replicate some of the claimed HP gains. I think alot has to do with airflow and cooling. Run most CAIs with a fan and the hood up, and you'll get better results than with the hood down. Which number is right?

The dynojet says 175. The mustang dyno say 165, and the dynopaks (That bolt up to the hubs with out a wheel attached) gives 180. What's the right number?

So I do appreciate the content of your comments, but please, don't twist my words to make your points.

And as far as trusting what's stuck to the windshield (and it's not, I did a permanant mount), what's the problem? In drag racing they don't just run the cars on the dyno. Far as I know, they use timing lights to see when the car ran the distance.

For road course work, no dyno and Cd based winners, you drive the course.

I spent longer than I care to admit getting a PhD in experimental physics. I think that I understand the nature of measurement, accuracy and precision better than most dyno owners.

Can you give a single reason based on FACT or FIRST PRINCIPLES that says a G-TEch gives bad data?

MAtt

 

I have a G-tech, and it's hard mounted.

Anyway, a G-Tech just mounted with suction cups will give FAR MORE accurate and usable real world comparisons (on the road or track, at speed) with our cars than ANY dyno can deliver. That's not the point of the dyno in the first place...

I've read your posts for some time.

Never thought I'd actually say anything.

But your constant repetitive posts are becoming tiresome, in the same way you're tired of any non-dyno info.

Your tone suggests strongly that you need to find something that'd be fun. Obviously, this board isn't it.

Sorry to be so direct, but you need to chill on the dyno angle. It's annoyingly repetitious and it's incorrect in the sense of this thread.

 

Top Fuel and Funny Cars never touch a dyno.

Acceleration (a) = Change Velocity (v) / Change time (t) or sumthin like that.

Wheeeeee <----- High School physics

 

Actually nobody is bench racing but you in an inverse sense..... accelerometers are used in a number of highly sensitive measurements...... including jet engines....... you don't seem like you have much experience with dynos because your statements appear naive....I have used 6 different dynos and the methodology of each of the operators and the quality of airflow etc was very different even from the same operators....that notwithsatnding even getting agreement from run to run can be difficult...... pardon me if I'm wrong about you, you may be Mr dyno but your statements and argumentative skills need some work.......

I have a drawer full of dynos that back up Dr. O......I don't know if I will ever go back to a dyno to claim an absolute number.... only as a delta and to gather subsequent data to see which way i am going....

and by the way NO one.....is making any claims.......your fighting windmills here......

 

Whatever it takes to make your self feel better about your numbers. But you and I have close to the same amount invested in our motors. And I believe you are making half the horsepower?

 

Not sure, but I'm thinking wheaties and urine are at work here.
Kaelaria, is that you?

Thanks for all the updates, Spider!

 

Edited so this thread can get back on track.

 

It's either Trippy/Kaeleria/Andy...take your pick...

 

 

not that it should matter but you are younger than 3 of my children.... and the billionaires that own google are in their early 30s so age does not really matter but it does give me insight to who I am addressing and it explains some of your demeanor.....

I don't feel anyway about my numbers because the last time I looked I drive a car not numbers....there are no claims on power......as far as making 1/2 your power I assume you are TC and if you research my threads going back over two years I said that if you want big numbers go TC early it is far cheaper.....for some reason and I can't explain it the TC solution did not win me over.....no disrespect for those that have it but I really wanted to go in another direction.......that being said I am glad that I am in the middle of the "62" project .... especially after having ridden in it I really like what I am feeling......and that power level will satisfy me...... now really as far as whose is bigger..... a couple of months ago I was at the Walter Middy races in Atlanta..... if you are really trying to be a big boy jump into that fracas..... my friend races a F3000 with an F1 engine 1100 lb and over 600hp.... what we do with these Minis is hobby level....or better yet get on the path to professional driver.... at your age it is still posssible.... the old dog on this porch just don't care if you are the best tail chaser in the county.....try really competing and do us all proud