you just reinvented cowl induction ala chevy ss .

 

as vacuum changed so did the state of the inductor.

 

all the crap in the bottom of my box might explain this.

 

the life of the header is said to be drasticly shortened and you can cook your cat.

 

Not true.
I've run over 50K miles on coated mild steel headers and had no isues with burning out dual cats on some pretty high output V8s.

There are a number of folks here doing the same with MINIs.

We've also seen cats burn out on uncoated headers too. A cheap cat may cook. I doubt a good race cat will.

 

HAs anyone taken readings now that the weather is colder? I was driving last night and we were at and below 30 degrees, as soon as we reach that cold during daylight I plan on reproducing the tests I did back on page 6 to see how weather conditions effect us and how weel the insulation is holding up and if it could be hampering anything.

 

I have noticed a bit more zest now that the weather is colder, but what makes testing difficult is that I don't get home until 5:30pm and by then it's dark.

This weekend I was planning to set up the ghetto-o-meter again and seeing what kind of results I get now that we are sub 40s.

 

I thought to just do a hand check (if only to blow all the science in this thread out of the water) tonight, the engine barely felt luke warm after a good 25 min of driving, and the filter felt like it was at the 20s that the air was, and box top I hadwas even more significantly colder.

I'm thinking another week or two and I'll setup the get-o-meter and do a few runs in daylight when we are sub 30s. I've pulled in a few 400+ mile tanks recently doing highway driving so I know th colder air is helping across the board, not sure how much of it is resultant of the intake though.

 

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I'm lost in all these pages.

In layman's terms is the HAI a good idea or not?

 

Yes. Part of the whole idea, of a CAI, is to get better flow. An HAI won't give the cold air ( realy not very cold ) but it will give better flow & sound real good. Big hp gains? Not. A little maybe......

 

I may have missed something, has anyone looked into the feasibility of a scoop/enclosure for the HAI (ex: AGS) to turn it into a short CAI?

 

the HAI doesn't give power but does improve throttle response. It's a hard area to isolate, but some have made baffles to improve the cold air flow. It's hard to seal well.

FWIW, I'm running one on my car. For the compramises involved, I like the throttle response.

Matt

 

Wow, here we are again, this is the thread that never dies...

Like you, I've been thinking now that the weather is cooling off of doing some more tests too. My performance computer is still hooked up, and the fairly quiet road I test on is still available. My CAI insulation has remained in place with no other mods to the car. I had considered getting the Alta top (or perhaps a custom one), may still someday, but I'm not in a rush about it.

Temps during most days where I live are now between 55 and 75 degrees, a good 20 to 30 degrees cooler than during the summer when we did our original tests. They'll go down another 10 to 20 degrees as winter starts to set in.

Of course the wonderful news is that pinging has stopped until summer comes around again. Sea Foam helped a lot, but never elminiated the pinging during the 100+ degree days. With the cold temps I've also felt a crispness to the throttle that is very refreshing. I'm pretty confident that there will be some performance improvement observed because of the cooler temps.

The bad news is that I've gotten a stupid door ding on my passenger side door. I've clay-barred most of it away, but my baby is marred now. I'm sure it's going to go slower because of that.

I'll post some results as soon as I've got them.

Best,

-- Don

 

My attempt to do this is documented here:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=78802

Not a full enclosure, but it helps. Since then, I've insulated the outlet IC horn as well. I think this is a major source of heat intake for the HAI when the car is idling (and shortly thereafter).

 

Probably a record for a thread revival at over 7 years...

Not sure who is still around, but curious what filters ones might be running now in this "HAI" orientation (direct to TB).

I experimented a few years back with the stock box (insulated) configurations, air flow challenges, but gravitated back to the simplicity and punch of this set-up. Wondering if there might be a filter that tilts a bit further away from the IC horn, but still fits the location....

 

Damn Tony, nice to see you're still around and hopefully doing well. Believe it or not I still have the same car. Only 70K miles on it. About to turn 12 years old. The car, not me.
I still have the same Randy Webb HDI intake except I've insulated it. Running the original Uni-filter. Been cleaned a few times.
Not that that information helps much regarding your question. We have a club here of 50-60 people but everyone has gone new Gen. Ther's very few of us that still have 1st Gen cars and none of them are modders other than appearance. The best mod I saw for the HAI was a small aluminum shield that blocked a bit of the heat from the engine but mainly did a better job of directing the air from the stock inlet next to the radiator, towards the filter. Maybe a square foot of material tops.
Nice talking at you.

 

Holy crap, obehave is still around. Damn. We go back to MINI2 and MCO here (before it became NAM)...

All is well my friend. A Father of two now. Much time as gone by...

MY MCS has about the same mileage, around 74K. She's still a hoot to drive, I'm happy to say.

I'll do some slight mods to the HAI, but I think just simply angling it bit more away from the IC horn, seemingly with a different filter. It seems like there are some more flange options these days:

http://www.knfilters.com/search/univround.aspx

Between the coated header and some engine bay venting (for when at rest), heat at standstill is about good as it's going to get...

Was hoping to hear that someone is using a different filter these days, but I suppose not. I'll do some experimenting and share at some point.

Hope all is well with you...

 

Obehave & TonyB, names I haven't seen in a LONG tome. Still have the same car, about 42k on it & it will be 12 this year. I don't no stinking new gen, I do like them BUT! The head has been off a couple of times to improve flow ( Cosworth ) & that's about the only major change - it's PDQ! It's good - you guys are still going strong


And there are a bunch of good K&N filters available today, thanks to all the newer, tighter engine compartments.

 

Steve too! Damn, very pleasantly surprised. I alway remember that huge front loader when I think of your NAM ID...

I have the first build week for 2003, the first week of September 2012 (wanted an IB MCS pretty bad, so I gave-up my spot to wait longer). Your 2003, to have just 42K is just mind-boggling. Glad your car, and you, are still going strong...

To get back on topic here, I spent quite a bit time in the engine bay last night, and also reviewing all of those filter options (K&N's only though), and for me, I'm convinced that I will stay with the RU-1550. I say so because I believe it's the biggest that I can fit in there. At 7" tall, it might not work so well for most as it will lightly touch the hood/bonnet liner. I removed this though some time ago, so I have more clearance above. The RU-1550 also has the 10 degree flange, which I find to be desirable for orientation purposes. I rotated it such that I have about 3/16" of space between the IC...

While the RU-1470 would fit much more comfortably, and be a little further away from that heat source (IC outlet). It's somewhat smaller in surface area. One can compute the minimum recommended filter size and here is one way to compute it here, at least for cylnder-shaped filters like the RU-1470:

http://www.carid.com/images/kn/info/kn-faq.html#q22

I believe though that for forced induction cars like ours, that too needs to get considered, and I found a couple different ways to compute that... While just a 1.6 liter, which is a little less than a 100 CID, the effective displacement is somewhat larger due to boost...

If for example the boost made by our little engines is comparable to that of a V6, like a 3.8 liter, or 232 CID, the minimum recommended height of a 4" diameter filter would be not too much less than 6" - the size of the RU-1470. Of course that is assuming a 3.8. I seem to recall that our little engines can pump air comparable to a V6, but most likely not that of a 3.8. I'm guessing that the RU-1470 is fine to use, however, from a service level perspective, it would need to get serviced somewhat more often; and if not, it would impair performance sooner than a larger filter. The RU-1550 seems to be about 70% larger, just eyeballing the two and also looking at their weights seems to indicate the same.

So, I'm staying with the RU-1550. That said, I might get a new one as my current one was buckled a tad from the hood liner, plus it's nice to have one already clean, oiled, bagged and ready to go (less down-time)...

Steve, good to hear from you.

 

Hokey Pete it's old timers hour.
Steve, I'm glad to see you post. I think I've still got your Weber books. Please PM me your mail info if I'm right so I can send them back. Every time I saw them I was like "who the heck did I sponge that from?". Then I just saw your name and had an ah ha moment.
Sorry to all the new owners but the 1st Gen cars are just plain the best looking.

 

Looks like we can once again thank another old timer. Andy@Ross-Tech;

http://www.mini2.com/forum/first-gen...fficiency.html

Long story short. His numbers, which I always trusted, stated 350CFM at 7K RPM.
PS: From what I remember while doing some testing the flow under the hood of the MINI was very good. @15MPH ( based on so so ancient remberies) the heat starts to dump out of the bay very effectively. Man I missed this stuff.

 

It's a pleasure to read these posts. The Geezer connection is alive & well. Obe I'll send you a PM.


Over the years many people have driven my car, including other Mini owners. A supercharged engine acts like a much larger engine in terms of low end power. All the discussion about insulating a CAI, which CAI is best, measuring temps before the supercharger really didn't amount to anything better than an HAI - Why? For 1 thing people seem to think they need to keep the revs up - they don't, it's a supercharged engine. Keeping the revs up just makes more heat, more heat = less power. Bottom line - HAI wins, least cost to flow ratio. The blower makes heat, it's a big heat sink connected to heat generating components - The best thing I tried was dry ice on the IC, making ice the right size on cookie sheets also works - none of this lasts for too long, but.............. And yes the first gen car is the best looking IMHO - it's nice and round

 

I remember Andy and that thread! Thank you. That flow, 350 CFM, is comparable to that of a V6, a smaller one...

I assume that is for a stock or somewhat stock MCS too.

While doing some searching, I found this neat reference data, from the exhaust side of the equation.

http://www.exhaustvideos.com/faq/how...pipe-diameter/

I'd like to validate that it is accurate, because if so, there are limitations being hit... A copy / paste from that link:

"Easy Way To Estimate: Your intake system needs to flow 1.5 CFM per engine horsepower, and your exhaust system needs to flow 2.2 CFM per engine horsepower."

Quick and Dirty Exhaust System Math
Easy Way To Estimate: Your intake system needs to flow 1.5 CFM per engine horsepower, and your exhaust system needs to flow 2.2 CFM per engine horsepower.

From the exhaust side:

Good Way To Estimate: Take engine RPM x engine displacement, then divide by two. This is the intake volume. Use this same volume of air for the exhaust system, but then correct for thermal expansion (you need to know exhaust temps to figure things out).

Exhaust Pipe Size Estimate: A good section of straight pipe will flow about 115 CFM per square inch of area. Here’s a quick table that shows how many CFM each common pipe size will flow, as well as the estimated max horsepower for each pipe size:

Pipe Diameter (inches) Pipe Area (in2) Total CFM (est.) Max HP Per Pipe Max HP For A Dual Pipe System
1 1/2 1.48 171 78 155
1 5/8 1.77 203 92 185
1 3/4 2.07 239 108 217
2 2.76 318 144 289
2 1/4 3.55 408 185 371
2 1/2 4.43 509 232 463
2 3/4 5.41 622 283 566
3 6.49 747 339 679
3 1/4 7.67 882 401 802
3 1/2 8.95 1029 468 935

NOTE: These numbers are just estimates. All pipes are assumed to be 16 gauge steel.

The table above is probably over-estimating pipe size, but you can see that a 400 hp vehicle with a dual exhaust system only needs 2 1/4 – 2 1/2 inch pipes. Anything larger is overkill.
+++++

The MINI has 2.25" plumbing (max), as I recall. From the above, the max HP (I believe that would engine, BHP), would be 185. And of course the stock exhaust system is not straight...

As some here might remember, I have a straight exhaust and I bumped it up to 2.5". Even then, according to the above, that is limited to 232 HP...

 

Tony, you did your homework - good read.