This is what I'm loving about this thread... we're all just kind of puking throughts into text and playing off other's ideas.

 

Yup. Definitely the good part of all this.

 

Ok, I'm going to make some simple design changes to my thermal pad idea...

1) To rule out the possibility that the thermal blanket is getting sucked down onto the top of the filter as the SC spins up, I'll be exchanging a longer piece of coat hanger for the paper clip landing zone and running the coat hanger down the middle of the CAI airbox for its full length instead of just at the rear partition...

2) I may also find some flat, full 5/16" thickness closed cell thermal pad material today and see how it compares with the black corrugated closed cell material I'm currently using. While it should be the same effective thickness, I know it will be stiffer which should help prevent movement of the material when the filter is sucking hard, and it may provide greater R-value.

After I've made these changes to reduce accidental restriction of airflow, if my throttle response softens and performance goes back more to what I had before, I'll be convinced my performance improvement was resulting from restriction of airflow...

Now, one more question to experiment with... Could the performance improvement be from *both* thermal protection and restriction of airflow? Any thoughts? This is testable for me, I can simply remove all of the thermal pad and put a plastic wrap (as described earilier here) over 40% to 50% of the filter and see how things perform again...

Man, I wish I had a performance monitor. Butt-dynos are fun, but they don't make usable numbers.

Very interesting discussion, it has major importance to so many people who like myself have gone to 3rd party intakes. I know I did so rather naiively. I hope Alta2, Randy and our other interested vendors are watching this thread.

[edit]
One undeniable effect that the thermal padding does have is that it significantly quiets down the SC whyne. Even if I find that reduction of airflow is the performance improvement factor, I think I'll ultimately keep the thermal padding in place. I enjoy hearing other parts of the engine as well as the birds and my stereo. My wife does too.

-- VBG

 

Well looks like I missed the early morning chatter; this is very interesting and a fun read; I'll be back when I've got hard data and some photos.

 

One thing to keep in mind, and I've found this to be true while playing with the wrap on my intake tube, is that once all this mass absorbs heat it'll take longer to dissipate. So an important part of the would be to use a material that sheds heat quickly as well as being a good insulator.

I checked into the suggestion the Dr had made about felt. I learned a few things; it's more expensive then I thought, it's real hard to find anyone that will sell you small quantities of thick felt, natural felt is only good to ~200º and synthetic to ~300º and it doesn't shed heat very quickly.
Ceramic blankets are the best thing I could find but as always with the good stuff you pay and good luck finding someone to sell you 10 ft/sq.

I don't mind playing and tossing a few $$ at an experiment but when it approaches or passes $100 I have to know it'll work.

Now here's an option. Not too expensive but WTF am I going to do with 50 ft/sq??

 

Approximately 33 feet of seawater = one atmosphere (~14.7 psi).

 

Did my stock box testing, until I go into detail witht eh results of three tests lets say the stocker definately holds heat better than anything else. I've got my ALTA CAI all wrapped up in insulation, custom top too. I used the rubber that goes under roofing, and a rubber based adhesive tape to hold it in place, I cover most of the box in 1 layer, some areas recieved 7-8 layers thick.

 

Holds heat.... meaning... internally?
Or is the coolest of the intakes...

Sorry... I'm telling myself that this should be easy, but I just want to make sure I understand properly.

 

The stock intake finctions as both really, well thus far. It takes the longest to heat up (about what your insulated version did, but then after extended drving at highway speed it didn't cool as much as any of the CAIs; it proved to be a good insulator but poor at venting.

 

Here's some teaser photos:

 

Ooooooh.... I am one interested little fellow right now.

Can't wait to see some numbers.

 

So am I, but I need to recover from the days heat soak before I can do any testing.

I'll have numbers up later, and if you're lucky I'll even do a simple graph.

 

Hmmm, thought you said heat stroke there for a moment, and was going to ask you if you were in Southern California too. It's 102 outside today.

Drove around shopping for about an hour. Throttle response was consistently strong and crisp despite the heat...

Picked up some more closed cell thermo pad, the newer version of the corrugated in green/white and some of the less expensive common blue stuff. Black was old stock, it isn't available anymore in either style :( . Also have my coat hanger.

I was trying to be a little less obvious in the color scheme, a little more subtle for when it is time for service and to do the smog test. Oh well.

So, all my raw materials are at hand, just waiting to feel like braving the heat again.

-- VBG

 

Question: why don't you insulate the OUTSIDE of the CAI box, rather than the inside? Why not try to keep the metal cool, rather than let the metal heat up and then try to insulate the air from it?

 

Stopping the heat from getting-in is great, but I feel that it should a secondary concern to... asking what can be done about controlling heat generation in the first place.

With the money that many spend on aftermkt intakes, that can be used to ceramic coat a header. I don't have any numbers on the MINI, but in other cars, the temp drops (engine bay) have been quite a bit. Checking-out websites such as HPC and Jet-Hot will reveal some before and after info...

250-300 bucks can probably get one a ceramic coated header and an HAI... And for those who want to keep the stock location, being closer to the header, and higher, I would guess coating will prove to be even more beneficial. Insulating the box would help even further, but probably nothing near the drop of coating the header. Just a different approach, and I feel one that will yield much cooler temps into the TB and SC...

 

Some may notice my insulation is on both the IN and OUT side of the box,
and it also seals up any gaps to the bottom of the stock box which is still
used in many CAIs.



So here's how the #s boil out:

The figures listed are deviations from ambient temperature, mild-Humidy witht he ALTA test, the stocka nd insulated had high humidity and an increase in abiemnt temp of 10-15 degrees

My insulated intake doesn't have contact with the filter about 1/2 inch separation, between filter. The ride is much much quiter unless I'm at WOT, then she sings like there was nothing there

Butt dyno, is a bit numb but didn't complain tere is still good mid range response and plenty of pull on hand, from cruising.

 

I intend to do both eventually.
If I come across a stock header w/cat for sale(cheap, low miles.....hint ....hint....) I'll pick it up and send it out for coating.

For now, for me, the intake part is cheap and easy.

For now here's a pic of my external temp probe.
The one inside the box is directly to the right of this one. They're both still stuck in my OEM IC boots so they're pretty well isolated from direct contact with anything.
I won't bother posting anything since there's lttle to add to what has already been posted.

 

Totally understand that reasoning. I recently found a SuperSprint header, with stock cat for $300. Had to check Craigslist every week for that one .

I'm of the mind where a strong defense is an aggressive offense... attack! And here, that would be the primary source of the heat. Of course, keeping-in that heat serves to make for improved performance, beyond that of a cooler engine bay, which impacts what are filter sees...

For those who have not purchased an aftermkt intake, and if heat is something truly of concern, as it should be when one buys a CAI, the header coating might be a prudent move. I've seen some choices less than 200 bucks...

Swaintech in NY looks very good also.

 

My deed is done with the coat hanger, too. Braced all over the place, pretty confident that there is now no insulation contact with the filter.

Just went for a test drive, it feels to me like it performs the same as with the insulation without the hanger to force separation.

I took #1 son who worked as a butt-dyno since he hasn't been in the car since I added any insulation. Blind test, he didn't know what I was testing. He said stronger pull, quieter SC.

Probaby will try different insulation media later this weekend.

Gotta run, pics at 11...

-- VBG

 

It's 11.

Where's the pics?

 

What time zone?
Where's the pics?

 

I'm back... 10:30 PSt...

Actually except for the coat hanger, it looks the same as before...

The car is garaged for now, let me paint a mental picture for you:

I created two braces of coat hanger wire that run from the front to the rear of the Alta airbox, they hook firmly under the rubber seal material there. They are parallel to the right and left side of the filter, about 1/2" above it. Then I added a brace between them that runs perpendicular to them. So it looks like a "H" in coat-hanger wire.

It's firm, and holds the thermal pad at least 1/2" above the filter, plus I positioned it so that the pad is pressed against the left and right sides of the airbox and ECU, thus avoiding direct contact with the filter...

It's pretty firm now, and seems to work pretty nicely...

As much as I don't like the blue color of the un-corrugated thermal pad, I'll probaby cut some of it up to test with this sometime weekend...

Btw, nice data reports... Are we targeting temps still, or is this combined with masking off parts of the filter too?

-- VBG

 

That sounds like a really slick little contraption.

Well, I've concluded that insulating the CAI walls will benefit you from any sort of stop since I think it is pretty proven that it prevents as much engine heat from entering the box.

However, I'm still in a world of thought when it comes to the masking off parts. Actually, more along the lines of designing a contraption that will covers more of the filter at low RPMs, and then uncovers the filter at high and do it all dynamically.

But would there be any gain? And how the heck am I going to keep it under 100$?

 

Hmmm, the blue thermal padding is about $7 a sheet... Corrugated padding is $24 a sheet.

Coat hangers and paper clips are close to free...

It does seem to work.



-- VBG

 

Ok... Did some more experimenting and took a pic...

This pic is a little grainy because the light was low, but it shows the hanger bracing materal as well as the paper clip brace. The braces are all about 1/2" above the filter. This all holds and separates the thermal padding I'm using as descussed above...

Also, I tried the flat, uncorrugated blue padding too, cut it carefully got it fitting, but I just wasn't happy with it, it is thinner, stiffer in the wrong spots and generally not as well behaved as the corrugated material...

So, what I do now have is a nice blue-thermal pad template to use in cutting up new corrugated thermal padding as needed.

More later,

-- VBG