Drivetrain DINAN says NO to crank pulley
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Originally Posted by Dr Obnxs
and I'm really suprised about this little sh*t-slinging fest. Every Mini tuner that I'm aware of has had their share of teething pains, some of which people here have suffered. Seems like different standards to me. The fact that they choose to put time and effort into what is a much smaller car market should be greeted with thanks and recognition, not derision and distain.
Sometimes I just don't understand.....
Matt
Sometimes I just don't understand.....
Matt
Their packages are fairly overpriced and their reputation overblown. There was quite a little support group of us Dinan owners going through similar problems at one time..........I'll see if I can't dig up the old link..........
Anyway, one of their packages for the E36 (I believe it was the Supercharged Dinan 3) was reknown for having supercharger heat-related bearing failure.
Also, if memory serves, there was also an issue with them mangling the headers on the Z8s and not acknowledging the issue until they apparently got caught red-handed (pictures posted by an irate owner on the internet).
Plus, Bob is right. I'll say it again, that so-called white paper is nothing but a Wikipedia primer regarding undampened crank pulleys. I've seen lesser known tuners make better pro and con arguments with actual data.
The white paper on dampeners contains good information
about what they do and why they are there. I read that piece long ago. Long before thier presence in the Mini community.
And for those that think they bring no new contributions to our sector of the market, name a single other tuner that extends the usable range of injectors by offering a reworked fuel pressure regulator. I can't think of any. It's a very sound principle used by many other tuners for other cars. While I don't know of Dinans price (and yes, they are at the high end of the scale, but then look at what many pay for a header for a Mini!), it could be a way for other tuners to offer more fuel for less $ than upgraded injectors. But none are offering it.
I'm not saying they're perfect. But I've had some issues with pretty much every tuning shop I've dealt with in the Mini area. I've just dealt with the problem privately, not publicly. I only go public after I haven't had satisfaction. And I've always gotten satisfaction for the problems I've encountered. But to say that the dedicated Mini tuners are perfect, please, give me a break. They aren't. That's the nature of small companies, and while it's not perfect, I don't get bent about it. I just look for resolution.
No one needs to go find links to threads where Dinan screwed a group of BMW owners. I'm sure they're there. But there are also threads showing less than full satisfaction from the Mini suppliers.
Matt
And for those that think they bring no new contributions to our sector of the market, name a single other tuner that extends the usable range of injectors by offering a reworked fuel pressure regulator. I can't think of any. It's a very sound principle used by many other tuners for other cars. While I don't know of Dinans price (and yes, they are at the high end of the scale, but then look at what many pay for a header for a Mini!), it could be a way for other tuners to offer more fuel for less $ than upgraded injectors. But none are offering it.
I'm not saying they're perfect. But I've had some issues with pretty much every tuning shop I've dealt with in the Mini area. I've just dealt with the problem privately, not publicly. I only go public after I haven't had satisfaction. And I've always gotten satisfaction for the problems I've encountered. But to say that the dedicated Mini tuners are perfect, please, give me a break. They aren't. That's the nature of small companies, and while it's not perfect, I don't get bent about it. I just look for resolution.
No one needs to go find links to threads where Dinan screwed a group of BMW owners. I'm sure they're there. But there are also threads showing less than full satisfaction from the Mini suppliers.
Matt
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From: Los Angeles
Originally Posted by Larry Clemens
I was thinking of adding a lightweight crank pulley to my 2005 MCS but received this reply by DINAN. I know this isn't the opinion of other tuners but now I am reluctant to add this mod especially since the performance gain is minor compared to many other bolt-on mods. Please comment.
Thanks for your inquiry, however, we do not sell, nor will we, lightweight crank pulleys for the MINI given the fact that they quickly degrade the damper and damage the engine. Steve Dinan wrote a white paper on this at http://www.dinancars.com/whitepapersFile.asp?ID=5 , while he talks about the BMW E36 engines, it applies fairly universally. We did experiment with the pulley system on the MINI Cooper S and found the same damaging results. Since Dinan exists to provide products that do more good than harm, this is something we cannot, with good conscience, offer Micah Burke DINAN
408-779-8584
Thanks for your inquiry, however, we do not sell, nor will we, lightweight crank pulleys for the MINI given the fact that they quickly degrade the damper and damage the engine. Steve Dinan wrote a white paper on this at http://www.dinancars.com/whitepapersFile.asp?ID=5 , while he talks about the BMW E36 engines, it applies fairly universally. We did experiment with the pulley system on the MINI Cooper S and found the same damaging results. Since Dinan exists to provide products that do more good than harm, this is something we cannot, with good conscience, offer Micah Burke DINAN
408-779-8584
Hopefully some of the NAM members who have viewed this thread (>2,000) will see if they can get an answer from DINAN.
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Originally Posted by Dr Obnxs
about what they do and why they are there. I read that piece long ago. Long before thier presence in the Mini community.
And for those that think they bring no new contributions to our sector of the market, name a single other tuner that extends the usable range of injectors by offering a reworked fuel pressure regulator. I can't think of any. It's a very sound principle used by many other tuners for other cars. While I don't know of Dinans price (and yes, they are at the high end of the scale, but then look at what many pay for a header for a Mini!), it could be a way for other tuners to offer more fuel for less $ than upgraded injectors. But none are offering it.
I'm not saying they're perfect. But I've had some issues with pretty much every tuning shop I've dealt with in the Mini area. I've just dealt with the problem privately, not publicly. I only go public after I haven't had satisfaction. And I've always gotten satisfaction for the problems I've encountered. But to say that the dedicated Mini tuners are perfect, please, give me a break. They aren't. That's the nature of small companies, and while it's not perfect, I don't get bent about it. I just look for resolution.
No one needs to go find links to threads where Dinan screwed a group of BMW owners. I'm sure they're there. But there are also threads showing less than full satisfaction from the Mini suppliers.
Matt
And for those that think they bring no new contributions to our sector of the market, name a single other tuner that extends the usable range of injectors by offering a reworked fuel pressure regulator. I can't think of any. It's a very sound principle used by many other tuners for other cars. While I don't know of Dinans price (and yes, they are at the high end of the scale, but then look at what many pay for a header for a Mini!), it could be a way for other tuners to offer more fuel for less $ than upgraded injectors. But none are offering it.
I'm not saying they're perfect. But I've had some issues with pretty much every tuning shop I've dealt with in the Mini area. I've just dealt with the problem privately, not publicly. I only go public after I haven't had satisfaction. And I've always gotten satisfaction for the problems I've encountered. But to say that the dedicated Mini tuners are perfect, please, give me a break. They aren't. That's the nature of small companies, and while it's not perfect, I don't get bent about it. I just look for resolution.
No one needs to go find links to threads where Dinan screwed a group of BMW owners. I'm sure they're there. But there are also threads showing less than full satisfaction from the Mini suppliers.
Matt
FWIW, there is a big difference between a dissatisfied Mini customer with a blinky unichip, or an unreturned e-mail or plasma booster and let's say $10K+ structural damage done to a limited production sports car by destroying frame welds while trying to shoe-horn in a header as part of a $19K kit - and then trying to cover up the damage. Or selling a kit with a supercharger that tends to fry its bearings.
And I'm not talking isolated incidents, if I remember correctly, all ten or so of the Z8 S2 kits resulted in structural body damage.........
No one on this thread has claimed that any of the Mini tuners are perfect, but I will be the one to claim that they have nowhere near the "ahem" track record that Dinan has.
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From: a canyon, south Bay Area
Wow, as grandpa would say... that boy is full of plenty of **** & vinegar! 
DINAN is apparently not all that in BMW land... I wasn't aware. That level of incompetence, and worse yet an intentional cover-up? And BMW is their bread & butter...
The white paper is a nice read, educational, and that's about the extent of it... The application to the MINI not very common sensical, yet made though. A lightened crank pulley might prove over time to be detrimental to our engine, but not because of the argument as portrayed in that discussion... If they reveal such a document for public consumption, a subsequent conversation (in public) about it is to be expected...
Larry, if you hear back from them, kindly share. I found that it took about 5 email or phone calls over a couple weeks to get a response. It would be interesting to hear what they have to say...
DINAN is apparently not all that in BMW land... I wasn't aware. That level of incompetence, and worse yet an intentional cover-up? And BMW is their bread & butter...
The white paper is a nice read, educational, and that's about the extent of it... The application to the MINI not very common sensical, yet made though. A lightened crank pulley might prove over time to be detrimental to our engine, but not because of the argument as portrayed in that discussion... If they reveal such a document for public consumption, a subsequent conversation (in public) about it is to be expected...
Larry, if you hear back from them, kindly share. I found that it took about 5 email or phone calls over a couple weeks to get a response. It would be interesting to hear what they have to say...
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Actually, my problem with Dinan is that "they say NO to the crank pulley" but support their claim with no real info and we "lemmings" are supposed to follow the "authoritarian" figure.....all they had to do was better support their claim
the only Dinan piece I have ever owned was the intake and it was nicely made but did not add the power of the Alta or the HDI.
At any rate.... I love this kind of discussion because I learn from it...... Matt, your sense of fair play is appreciated...... I too have had my issues with current tuners and I agree, they are not perfect....... and yes their have been some unsubstatiated claims and some money wasted...... I am kind of hoping that Dinan will get wind of this thread and respond..... hats off to Alta... for their open forum initiative.
the only Dinan piece I have ever owned was the intake and it was nicely made but did not add the power of the Alta or the HDI.
At any rate.... I love this kind of discussion because I learn from it...... Matt, your sense of fair play is appreciated...... I too have had my issues with current tuners and I agree, they are not perfect....... and yes their have been some unsubstatiated claims and some money wasted...... I am kind of hoping that Dinan will get wind of this thread and respond..... hats off to Alta... for their open forum initiative.
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Originally Posted by SpiderX
Actually, my problem with Dinan is that "they say NO to the crank pulley" but support their claim with no real info and we "lemmings" are supposed to follow the "authoritarian" figure.....all they had to do was better support their claim
the only Dinan piece I have ever owned was the intake and it was nicely made but did not add the power of the Alta or the HDI.
At any rate.... I love this kind of discussion because I learn from it...... Matt, your sense of fair play is appreciated...... I too have had my issues with current tuners and I agree, they are not perfect....... and yes their have been some unsubstatiated claims and some money wasted...... I am kind of hoping that Dinan will get wind of this thread and respond..... hats off to Alta... for their open forum initiative.
the only Dinan piece I have ever owned was the intake and it was nicely made but did not add the power of the Alta or the HDI.
At any rate.... I love this kind of discussion because I learn from it...... Matt, your sense of fair play is appreciated...... I too have had my issues with current tuners and I agree, they are not perfect....... and yes their have been some unsubstatiated claims and some money wasted...... I am kind of hoping that Dinan will get wind of this thread and respond..... hats off to Alta... for their open forum initiative.
I recently received this response from your company when I inquired about a lightweight crank pulley for the MINI
Thanks for your inquiry, however, we do not sell, nor will we, lightweight crank pulleys for the MINI given the fact that they quickly degrade the damper and damage the engine. Steve Dinan wrote a white paper on this at http://www.dinancars.com/whitepapersFile.asp?ID=5 , while he talks about the BMW E36 engines, it applies fairly universally. We did experiment with the pulley system on the MINI Cooper S and found the same damaging results. Since Dinan exists to provide products that do more good than harm, this is something we cannot, with good conscience, offer.
A number of MINI tuners are selling and installing MINI crank pulleys and any information that you could provide is greatly appreciated.
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From: Los Angeles
Originally Posted by SpiderX
Actually, my problem with Dinan is that "they say NO to the crank pulley" but support their claim with no real info and we "lemmings" are supposed to follow the "authoritarian" figure.....all they had to do was better support their claim
the only Dinan piece I have ever owned was the intake and it was nicely made but did not add the power of the Alta or the HDI.
At any rate.... I love this kind of discussion because I learn from it...... Matt, your sense of fair play is appreciated...... I too have had my issues with current tuners and I agree, they are not perfect....... and yes their have been some unsubstatiated claims and some money wasted...... I am kind of hoping that Dinan will get wind of this thread and respond..... hats off to Alta... for their open forum initiative.
the only Dinan piece I have ever owned was the intake and it was nicely made but did not add the power of the Alta or the HDI.
At any rate.... I love this kind of discussion because I learn from it...... Matt, your sense of fair play is appreciated...... I too have had my issues with current tuners and I agree, they are not perfect....... and yes their have been some unsubstatiated claims and some money wasted...... I am kind of hoping that Dinan will get wind of this thread and respond..... hats off to Alta... for their open forum initiative.
I recently received this response from your company when I inquired about a lightweight crank pulley for the MINI
Thanks for your inquiry, however, we do not sell, nor will we, lightweight crank pulleys for the MINI given the fact that they quickly degrade the damper and damage the engine. Steve Dinan wrote a white paper on this at http://www.dinancars.com/whitepapersFile.asp?ID=5 , while he talks about the BMW E36 engines, it applies fairly universally. We did experiment with the pulley system on the MINI Cooper S and found the same damaging results. Since Dinan exists to provide products that do more good than harm, this is something we cannot, with good conscience, offer.
A number of MINI tuners are selling and installing MINI crank pulleys and any information that you could provide is greatly appreciated
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From: Hampton, VA
Originally Posted by TonyB
Princess Bride?
Never saw that film, but with so many references over the years, maybe I should. I'm actually half Sicilian, so I'd like to see the quote in context...
Never saw that film, but with so many references over the years, maybe I should. I'm actually half Sicilian, so I'd like to see the quote in context...
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From: Northampton MA
Bottom line: If Dinan says no to a light weight pully, OK... they have every right to say what they want, white papers or nothing at all. Do we need to listen....If you want to, go ahead, if not, don't.
For what it's worth, I'm planning to put a 2% light weight pully on my car based on what I know. That does not mean that everyone else should follow. No white papers here, just some old time experience ( 40+ years ).
For what it's worth, I'm planning to put a 2% light weight pully on my car based on what I know. That does not mean that everyone else should follow. No white papers here, just some old time experience ( 40+ years ).
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From: Montgomeryville, PA
From Unorthodox Racing: http://www.unorthodoxracing.com/faq_pulleys.html
People are getting their crank pulleys confused with the harmonic dampers found on some V6 / V8 engines. "Harmonic Balancer" is a term used loosely in the automotive industry. Technically, this type of device does not exist. The "balancer" part comes from engines that are externally balanced and have a counterweight cast into the damper, hence the merging of the two terms. None of the applications we offer use a counterweight as part of the pulley, as these engines are all internally balanced.
The pulleys on most of the new import and smaller domestic engines have an elastomer (rubber ring) incorporated into the pulley that makes them look similar to a harmonic damper. The elastomer in the OEM pulley serves as an isolator, which is there to suppress natural vibration and noise from the engine itself, the A/C compressor, P/S pump, and alternator. This is what the manufacturers call NVH (Noise Vibration & Harshness) when referring to noticeable noise and vibration in the passenger compartment. It is important to note in these applications, the elastomer is inadequate in size and durability to act as an effective torsional damper. If you look at the pulleys on some imports there is no rubber to be found at all. We have samples of these, mostly from Acura/Honda, the Nissan Altima, 1.8L Eclipse, 2.3L Fords, Chrysler 2.2L's, and 1.8L VW's, to mention a few. This is not to say with our pulleys you will hear a ton of noise or feel more vibration from your engine compartment. Most owners who have installed our pulleys notice the engine actually feels smoother. This is result of replacing the heavy crank pulley with our crank pulley. NVH is variable and unique to every car. NVH will increase with the installation of an aftermarket intake and/or exhaust, for example. Think of OEM intake systems in newer cars, they use baffles and resonators in the intake to quiet all the intake noise. Aftermarket intakes eliminate these resonators and create dramatic increases in engine noise from the throttle opening and closing. So to most tuners, certain types of NVH can make the driving experience more enjoyable.
The purpose of a traditional harmonic damper is to protect against crank failure from torsional movement. This is not necessary in most modern engines because of the many advances in engine design and materials. Factors such as stroke length, displacement, inline, V configurations, piston dwell time, piston pin off-set, power output, etc., do determine when and how these harmonics and torsional movements occur.
Again, there is a lot of internet hearsay about crank pulleys. When engine problems occur, too often people are quick to blame the pulley first, rather than taking the time to look logically into why there was a problem. We hope that after reading this you will understand the crank pulleys better.
People are getting their crank pulleys confused with the harmonic dampers found on some V6 / V8 engines. "Harmonic Balancer" is a term used loosely in the automotive industry. Technically, this type of device does not exist. The "balancer" part comes from engines that are externally balanced and have a counterweight cast into the damper, hence the merging of the two terms. None of the applications we offer use a counterweight as part of the pulley, as these engines are all internally balanced.
The pulleys on most of the new import and smaller domestic engines have an elastomer (rubber ring) incorporated into the pulley that makes them look similar to a harmonic damper. The elastomer in the OEM pulley serves as an isolator, which is there to suppress natural vibration and noise from the engine itself, the A/C compressor, P/S pump, and alternator. This is what the manufacturers call NVH (Noise Vibration & Harshness) when referring to noticeable noise and vibration in the passenger compartment. It is important to note in these applications, the elastomer is inadequate in size and durability to act as an effective torsional damper. If you look at the pulleys on some imports there is no rubber to be found at all. We have samples of these, mostly from Acura/Honda, the Nissan Altima, 1.8L Eclipse, 2.3L Fords, Chrysler 2.2L's, and 1.8L VW's, to mention a few. This is not to say with our pulleys you will hear a ton of noise or feel more vibration from your engine compartment. Most owners who have installed our pulleys notice the engine actually feels smoother. This is result of replacing the heavy crank pulley with our crank pulley. NVH is variable and unique to every car. NVH will increase with the installation of an aftermarket intake and/or exhaust, for example. Think of OEM intake systems in newer cars, they use baffles and resonators in the intake to quiet all the intake noise. Aftermarket intakes eliminate these resonators and create dramatic increases in engine noise from the throttle opening and closing. So to most tuners, certain types of NVH can make the driving experience more enjoyable.
The purpose of a traditional harmonic damper is to protect against crank failure from torsional movement. This is not necessary in most modern engines because of the many advances in engine design and materials. Factors such as stroke length, displacement, inline, V configurations, piston dwell time, piston pin off-set, power output, etc., do determine when and how these harmonics and torsional movements occur.
Again, there is a lot of internet hearsay about crank pulleys. When engine problems occur, too often people are quick to blame the pulley first, rather than taking the time to look logically into why there was a problem. We hope that after reading this you will understand the crank pulleys better.
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From: Northampton MA
"Just an interesting read. Quite frankly, I have never seen a problem with a lightened pulley on a Mini, etc. I think this is one of the arguments that can go either way, but I'll stick to the light-weight, power-increasing, underdriven side of the fence. From looking at an OEM piece, it seems to be more of a vibrational dampener than anything else -- and isn't the tritec a heavy duty motor, designed to take a serious beating in commercial/rental car usages?"
JSCspeed, I'm with you. You could argue either way. To answer your question, harmonic or vibration ( same thing ), a heavy pully might be needed in some cases because of the crank counter weight in combonation with the fly wheel clutch etc.... All of the components can be balanced perfectly or as good as can be, however when looking at the crank on balancer with the strobe you can see the slight, almost undectable imperfections. Add a running engine with everything but the heavy pulley, damper ( or what ever you want to call it ) & there may be a drone at an rpm range.... Don't run your small block Chevy without one..... You will have premature engine problems. These balancers are necessary for most production engines....
The Mini crank is so short & displacement is so small IMHO that the added weight to the front of the crank is not necessary. I ran a 72 GT6 as a GT3 car with the lightest front pully I could make... and would run that motor to 8600 rpms... no problems with the crank... lots of other stuff, oiling, valves, rockers, head gaskets.... when it ran good it was great
$.02 worth, and that's all it's worth......
JSCspeed, I'm with you. You could argue either way. To answer your question, harmonic or vibration ( same thing ), a heavy pully might be needed in some cases because of the crank counter weight in combonation with the fly wheel clutch etc.... All of the components can be balanced perfectly or as good as can be, however when looking at the crank on balancer with the strobe you can see the slight, almost undectable imperfections. Add a running engine with everything but the heavy pulley, damper ( or what ever you want to call it ) & there may be a drone at an rpm range.... Don't run your small block Chevy without one..... You will have premature engine problems. These balancers are necessary for most production engines....
The Mini crank is so short & displacement is so small IMHO that the added weight to the front of the crank is not necessary. I ran a 72 GT6 as a GT3 car with the lightest front pully I could make... and would run that motor to 8600 rpms... no problems with the crank... lots of other stuff, oiling, valves, rockers, head gaskets.... when it ran good it was great
$.02 worth, and that's all it's worth......
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UPDATE FROM DINAN - JUST REC'D THIS EMAIL RESPONSE. I will post an update if/when I hear from the Dinan engineering staff
Micah
Larry,
After some discussion here I've found that my original comments to you were in error. I was basing my original email on the pulley information from Steve's white paper and other discussions I've had here regarding pulley's but those were not directly in regard to lightweight pulley's for the MINI. So, in my email to you,I misspoke regarding any experiments using lightweight pulleys and MINIs. I'll refrain from commenting further on this and refer your questions to our engineering staff, having someone contact you regarding this issue.
After some discussion here I've found that my original comments to you were in error. I was basing my original email on the pulley information from Steve's white paper and other discussions I've had here regarding pulley's but those were not directly in regard to lightweight pulley's for the MINI. So, in my email to you,I misspoke regarding any experiments using lightweight pulleys and MINIs. I'll refrain from commenting further on this and refer your questions to our engineering staff, having someone contact you regarding this issue.
Micah
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From: SF Bay Area
Originally Posted by Larry Clemens
UPDATE FROM DINAN - JUST REC'D THIS EMAIL RESPONSE. I will post an update if/when I hear from the Dinan engineering staff
Micah
Larry,
After some discussion here I've found that my original comments to you were in error. I was basing my original email on the pulley information from Steve's white paper and other discussions I've had here regarding pulley's but those were not directly in regard to lightweight pulley's for the MINI. So, in my email to you,I misspoke regarding any experiments using lightweight pulleys and MINIs. I'll refrain from commenting further on this and refer your questions to our engineering staff, having someone contact you regarding this issue.
After some discussion here I've found that my original comments to you were in error. I was basing my original email on the pulley information from Steve's white paper and other discussions I've had here regarding pulley's but those were not directly in regard to lightweight pulley's for the MINI. So, in my email to you,I misspoke regarding any experiments using lightweight pulleys and MINIs. I'll refrain from commenting further on this and refer your questions to our engineering staff, having someone contact you regarding this issue.
Micah
So, given that its okay to do I'm wondering what you really reap? Is it really worth the cost and any risk (whether it is a real risk or just a risk with Mini and the ol' warranty) or is the hp gain negligible enough so at that point just losing a few pounds would be as beneficial?
There are two effects..
Originally Posted by eVal
Interesting, I'll be curious what they say.
So, given that its okay to do I'm wondering what you really reap? Is it really worth the cost and any risk (whether it is a real risk or just a risk with Mini and the ol' warranty) or is the hp gain negligible enough so at that point just losing a few pounds would be as beneficial?
So, given that its okay to do I'm wondering what you really reap? Is it really worth the cost and any risk (whether it is a real risk or just a risk with Mini and the ol' warranty) or is the hp gain negligible enough so at that point just losing a few pounds would be as beneficial?
Alex from the tire rack posted a link to a story, and what comes out of it is...
The improvement goes proportional to mass removed, and the square of the radius that the mass is removed from divided by the radius of the tire, times the square of the RPM and final drive ratio.
The short answer is yes, there's some benefit to be had here, but you get much much better from a flywheel, but it's a lot harder to make the swap.
Matt
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Originally Posted by Larry Clemens
UPDATE FROM DINAN - JUST REC'D THIS EMAIL RESPONSE. I will post an update if/when I hear from the Dinan engineering staff
Micah
Larry,
After some discussion here I've found that my original comments to you were in error. I was basing my original email on the pulley information from Steve's white paper and other discussions I've had here regarding pulley's but those were not directly in regard to lightweight pulley's for the MINI. So, in my email to you,I misspoke regarding any experiments using lightweight pulleys and MINIs. I'll refrain from commenting further on this and refer your questions to our engineering staff, having someone contact you regarding this issue.
After some discussion here I've found that my original comments to you were in error. I was basing my original email on the pulley information from Steve's white paper and other discussions I've had here regarding pulley's but those were not directly in regard to lightweight pulley's for the MINI. So, in my email to you,I misspoke regarding any experiments using lightweight pulleys and MINIs. I'll refrain from commenting further on this and refer your questions to our engineering staff, having someone contact you regarding this issue.
Micah
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From: Bay Area, CA
Ok I am going say this very quietly. I know Steve personally and to me this is not a thread that is discussing the issue of the crank pulley and whether it is a smart thing for our cars or nto but it seems to me that this is a true bash session of all those who have had in the past or dont want to have bad experiences with Dinan. I would have to totally agree with Matt that every supplier for the industry has their share of problems. However but the gusy some slack, he has been involved with the BMW industry since before I can remember and he has contributed a ton of engineering principles, improvements, and performance gains to our cars that we would not have if it were not for his true dedication to BMW/MINI. He is also the only aftermarket supplier to have true support from both BMWNA and BMW Germany. I have been there when the BMW techs have come in from Germany to help on things. So in my honest opinion I have to say "thank you Mr. Dinan for all your dedication and support for trying to make our cars more enjoyable" and if you are nto wanting to enjoy your car more then go ahead and complain about Steve and his work but I mean common give the guy a break, everyone has an opinion and everyone will have their way of doing things. If you dont agree with hsi then dont buy his stuff but common this shoudl nto be a bash session on Mr. Dinan.
Just my $.02 of comments.
Ok I am done.
Just my $.02 of comments.
Ok I am done.
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From: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted by SpiderX
...a well meaning customer service person spoke without any real knowledge thinking he was helping..... My respect for Dinan has increased.... and kudos to Micah for owning up.
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Originally Posted by racinbmw
Ok I am going say this very quietly. I know Steve personally and to me this is not a thread that is discussing the issue of the crank pulley and whether it is a smart thing for our cars or nto but it seems to me that this is a true bash session of all those who have had in the past or dont want to have bad experiences with Dinan. I would have to totally agree with Matt that every supplier for the industry has their share of problems. However but the gusy some slack, he has been involved with the BMW industry since before I can remember and he has contributed a ton of engineering principles, improvements, and performance gains to our cars that we would not have if it were not for his true dedication to BMW/MINI. He is also the only aftermarket supplier to have true support from both BMWNA and BMW Germany. I have been there when the BMW techs have come in from Germany to help on things. So in my honest opinion I have to say "thank you Mr. Dinan for all your dedication and support for trying to make our cars more enjoyable" and if you are nto wanting to enjoy your car more then go ahead and complain about Steve and his work but I mean common give the guy a break, everyone has an opinion and everyone will have their way of doing things. If you dont agree with hsi then dont buy his stuff but common this shoudl nto be a bash session on Mr. Dinan.
Just my $.02 of comments.
Ok I am done.
Just my $.02 of comments.
Ok I am done.
I'm sure Steve Dinan has forgotten more than I will EVER know about cars but maybe not more than I know about how to develop an effective arguement with reasonably intelligent people..... the engineering question was really not the issue it was the arrogance of,... Dinan said it...ergo....those other guys are full of it.... therefore etc.....
That being said there is nothing personal in this and I really did appreciate the revised opinion and waiting for their engineering staffs reply/opinion etc.
Banned
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,328
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Originally Posted by racinbmw
Ok I am going say this very quietly. I know Steve personally and to me this is not a thread that is discussing the issue of the crank pulley and whether it is a smart thing for our cars or nto but it seems to me that this is a true bash session of all those who have had in the past or dont want to have bad experiences with Dinan. I would have to totally agree with Matt that every supplier for the industry has their share of problems. However but the gusy some slack, he has been involved with the BMW industry since before I can remember and he has contributed a ton of engineering principles, improvements, and performance gains to our cars that we would not have if it were not for his true dedication to BMW/MINI. He is also the only aftermarket supplier to have true support from both BMWNA and BMW Germany. I have been there when the BMW techs have come in from Germany to help on things. So in my honest opinion I have to say "thank you Mr. Dinan for all your dedication and support for trying to make our cars more enjoyable" and if you are nto wanting to enjoy your car more then go ahead and complain about Steve and his work but I mean common give the guy a break, everyone has an opinion and everyone will have their way of doing things. If you dont agree with hsi then dont buy his stuff but common this shoudl nto be a bash session on Mr. Dinan.
Just my $.02 of comments.
Ok I am done.
Just my $.02 of comments.
Ok I am done.
I had a truly horrible experience with their work and in the process found a small subcommunity of people who had like problems. I have yet to encounter a like community with the Minis...........
The Dealer and BMW/NA backed away from the car like it had the plague........and his customer service was absolutely wretched. I found out the hard way that dealer support on the vehicle was non-existent and I had a very expensive paperweight in my garage that nobody wanted to deal with.
It goes without saying that there will also be people who have had good experience with his products - and they are as entitled to their opinions as I am to mine.
I have spent thousands of dollars on my MCS with one tuner, and I try to refrain from speaking up on their behalf when someone on this Forum has an issue with them - basically because I know that people's experiences will vary and they are entitled to them. In other words, my good experience does not in any way negate a bad experience someone else had - and that also goes both ways.
So here we are back at step one, with the reason for this and several other "No on the Undampened MCS Crank Pulley" threads having been exposed, by Dinan, to not apply to our cars.......
So are the naysayers still naysaying? Where is the data to support the con argument that is specific to the Mini?
6th Gear
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,383
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From: Houston
I think what's being lost in the argument is the fact that even if Dinan never tested it on a MINI, making their argument invalid, that still does not remove the uncertainty concerning the reliability of the lightened crank pullies. The only way that the crank pulley can be proven one way or another is to test the effects of the lightened crank pulley on the vibration or whatever on the crank. Just because a supporter of one side is proven to be negligent in their statement does not automatically mean that the other side is right.