And this bothers me why...............?

Another glaring example the M7 atitude that so many love......

 

And yours is a shining example of love, and appropriate forum ethics

You see ....it doesn't bother me either.

Peter
Team M7
562-608-8123

 

hey tuls, when u look at both AGS and OEM parts they dont both have a straight path from TB to SC AGS does not have that almost 90o angle bend that the OEM bit does. do u think this will out-flo AGS w/that major bend still in its design? if anything it seems like it might bring the same type of #'s

 

Another glaring example of Scottinbend acting negatively without posting anything productive as well Some of us are trying to understand this new mod here....try to keep your useless M7 insults out of this You arent doing much in way of making friends either by making childish posts as usual. Act your age.

Tuls- Is the new one smoother too? All of the old MC (02's) parts seemed to be very "rough" on the inside which cant be great for flow. I look forward to pics....cant beat OEM exchange parts. Is there any difference in length as well?

 

'
when you look at the path...there is no way it will matter...it is HUGE....not only that but the turn it makes is inconcequential from what I can tell....LOL...for give the spelling it is getting late....

 

something I learned a while back...true or not...I don't really know...but it makes sence....if somethign was too smooth the air wouldnt get turbulent enough and you could accually loose power....now this makes sence to me..as we need to "mix" the air and fuel...etc...hence some of the people out there who have put out things like "tornado" or whatever....does it make HP prolly not...but if you can get optiimle burn cause things are mixing better that's great.....so I say....is it worth it? tests will tell...

it is the same length although it moves things a little.....

 

comparisons to stock and AGS:

larger tube ID than stock;
may or may not require cleaning mold flashing;
longer tube length than AGS and stock
a sharp 90deg bend right away;
it has a support for the throttle body weight
has anyone tried fitting it? it looks like the tb is in a new spot;
install might be simpler than AGS: no harness or water cose tweaking, eg.
you will still ahve to fiddle around with the filter;
price, after filter mod, might be the same range as AGS;
all three still have the punky SC connection

 

At least make it chunky oatmeal chocolate chip

 

Say what? No fuel in the pre-SC tube. Anyways, turbulence before SC will only add resistance and limit air getting to it...

 

That would be my thought too? Atleast the kind of turbulence that im thinking of. If there is a disruption in flow, i figured the air would begin to have trouble getting to where it needs to go (towards the TB).

 

I'm curious about your car Andy......what are your mods and what kind of power are you making?

 

Lets try to keep the personal attacks and "bashing" to a minimum. This thread is worthy because it has potential in uncovering a factory piece which may or may not be an improvement to previous parts. I like this aspect. What I dont like is the inevitable of M7 as in other threads.

Facts so far:

This intake tube is a factory part that addresses the pinched-down tube issue of previous factory pieces. So does the M7 AGS. No one has come up with specific numbers regarding this piece, and for that matter, the AGS (the latter may not be the case, any real details may have gotten buried under the inevitable noise (in the thread, not of glorious SC whine)).

Keep up the good work of testing this factory tube. In the meantime, stop the AGS baiting and ill will.

 

Send me an email or post a new thread.

I like that the the 90 deg bend looks smooth, unlike the sudden path change that the older tube has immediately after the throttle body. It would be interesting to see how well the old and new designs compare and if they have cleaned up the flashing any.

It's fairly common in the automotive world to have a new part that offers a gain for the gearheads who like retrofitting, yet is only available in the less-sporty variations. Examples that come to mind are the larger fuel pump in the automatic versions of VW's TDI models, the reportedly awesome cylinder heads found in the 5.0L Explorers (yet not in the Mustang of the same era), and of course the wonderfully light "Holey" wheels from the base Cooper that bolt on perfectly to the Cooper S for wintertime/racing use.

BTW, to avoid ruffled feathers, let's all agree to call it the Supercharger Intake Duct (unless Sid gets upset ).

 

 

Not that this method would necessarily prove cost effective, but it would be interesting to take a stock '02-'04 MCS and bolt on:

'05 MCSa SID
'05 MCS crank pulley
MC Holeys

... and see what the improvement in performance would be. OEM-cool. Of course, bolting on a '05 MCS transmission with LSD would undoubtedly help lots too but that's in a SLIGHTLY different price category.

 

Trying to keep up:

SO this is the pipe from the 05+ MCSa, and is NOT the same as the 05+ MCS? Are there any manual MCSs that have been built with this new style pipe? Direct retro-fit?

If i can get to it, I can try to take some pics of the tube on our 05 MCSa.

---

Side note, while I expect that forums will always be the place where little flame wars will occur, it is a shame to see a Vendor jump in on a personal level. I understand that the original post may have crossed lines when referring to a vendors product, but there are very professional ways to handle that. While many seasoned folks may know all about the sorted pi$$ing wars of the past, there are always going to be newbies, people who don't know the story, and don't care anyway.

While i am very much a newbie here, I can tell you from years of experience on miata.net that there are different types of vendors....ones who would add fuel to these type of fires, and the ones who directly state their position and keep personal attacks out of things. I know who i like to deal with....

(folds up soap box, heads on home....)

-jac

 

Here is how I see it.

From the giant dyno debate over the ags system I think it came out that it made 6whp WITH THE INLET DUCT while the alta made 10 with the stock smashed one. So its entirely possible that there will be no difference whatsoever no matter which tube you use bent or not. Does anyone know how much air the sc can move or how much air can actually pass through? ( or is pulled through ) There were flow #'s for the stock part and ags part, but if the cfm needs of the engine are less than what the stock tube can flow then what is the difference. Get my point. If the engine can only use 220cfm and the stock tube flows 275cfm then I doubt you will see any real gain from a tube that will flow 350cfm.

If nothing else the new tube will be more effecient but we will all know soon enough if its worth the trouble or not.

 

As long as this piece doesn't "suck", SID's cool with me The CAD2D software we use at GM is also named SID (Alias-Studio Integrated Design)

 

It's my guess that MINI uses this new SID because they can. From what I understand, the MCSa has the engine in a slightly different position in the engine bay. That is what necessitated the different crank pulley too. If it fits, have someone throw on the new SID and give us some numbers on a pre-'05 car.

You KNOW you want numbers. Oh, yes, you do... :impatient :impatient :impatient

 

FWIW, I recall in a tread that randy mentioned that the MCSa motor is actually a little closer to the pas frame rail than the MCS. Slush box must be a little longer than the Getrag.

Would that affect the placement of this SID? Would it put the TB in teh right position in regard to the filter, etc?

Just tossing out ideas, etc....

-jac

 

Tuls--'huge' !? so is AGS but minus the angle! it looks like it will cause air-flo turbulence therefore, charge the air & heat up b4 entering SC....

**if SC is hopped-up along w/intake, internals, head, match portin', header-back-- movin' air should not be an issue, YES!?!? jus a question dont mean to sound like I KNOW it all!!

 

I don't understand your statement or question(s)? Would you mind restating them in English? I'm not trying to bust on you, but I really can't follow what you wrote.

 

My "translation":

In response to Tuls calling the new SID is 'huge', joker responded saying that the AGS is huge as well. He then went on to state that the SID has a 90 degree bend unlike the AGS, which he felt would create some turbulence thus harming intake performance. So his post is stating that the AGS would be "better" at handling the flow based on the idea that the SID will cause some turbulence.

Joker then asked whether there would be any trouble getting air flowing once you had upgraded all of the other intake/exhaust parts of your engine. Presumably trying to ascertain where the bottleneck is.

hope that helped andy...

 

another great find by the MINI community...just saw this thread...

watching expectantly for SID comments only

 

Thanks for the translation.

The AGS appears to trade one 90-degree turn for another. Instead of having the turn inside the SID, it's inside the air filter.

As far as airflow requirements for the engine, my logs and calculations show a fairly stock '05 MCS (JCW intake and one-ball, stock pulley, etc) flowing a peak of about 605 kg/h or 275 cfm at 6900 rpm in 4th gear on the dyno. A somewhat more modded '03 MCS (19% pulley, K&N Typhoon intake, Borla exhaust) flowed a peak of about 717 kg/h or 325 cfm at 6500 rpm in 4th gear on the same dyno on the same day.

BTW, I took a look at the area under and around the stock SID on my '03 MCS and it looks like there is plenty of room for a fatter/rounder pipe which shouldn't contact the nearby engine mount bolt, radiator hoses and fan, etc. If the MCSa SID indeed has the same mating surfaces as the stock one, it looks pretty promising but of course results and flow data would tell the real tale.