Well. I finally got my chance to find out if my modded 05 MCS was a capable competitor to a new 05 JC Work MCS.

A friend (who is buying the Works MCS) and I went to drive the new Works car at the dealership this afternoon. This car is loaded! Every option there is plus all the Works packages...over $40K sticker price! It's a wonderful car and drives great!

Mine is an 05 MCS with minimal factory options (premium package and 1/2 leather). But, I have a 15% pulley, Alta CAI, Unichip, Milteck cat back, R-speed 22mm sway bar, Alta short shift and lightweight Kosie wheels with sticky 215 rubber plus a few other non-performance related mods.

Bottom line......My modded 05 MCS will out-pull the JCW car in any situation. Straights, corners, you name it! I was shocked! I was sure that the JCW would be quicker and handle better. I mean for the $$$ and the hype thats goes with the JCW kit, I expected much more.

So, from this Miniac, I'm finding the JCW options very questionable. I'm glad I didn't go that route. I guess if warranty is an issue, maybe. But, for the cost of the JCW bits, I can afford to buy and install the aftermarket goodies, break them, go to the dealership, get everything fixed on my nickel, and still come out ahead!

If performance is your bag, seriously consider aftermarket stuff.

ripley.

 

As much as I would love the JC Works kit to be everything the dealers try and tell you it is, its kinda nice to hear that you can get the same or better performance for alot smaller of a price. it would be nice if the mods were warranteed, but hey, nothing is perfect.

 

ripley,
The JCW options are not questionable if you want to keep warranty intact and in fact that is a major selling point with many owners. Also sometimes you can get JCW upgrades written in with the new car purchase so that they become part of the car payments. This means less up front cost and more on monthly payments.

For the owner wanting the most bang per buck and no worries about warranty then true you can do more and get more if you plan wisely.

Aftermarket upgrades such as suspension upgrades and light wheels are always going to allow for much better performance than what JCW can allow for. I'd expect you to do well with your upgrade list-
15% pulley- Similar to JCW SC
Alta CAI- works well
Unichip- superior product
Miltek cat back- Louder and more power than JCW
R-speed 22mm sway bar- excellent for handling
Alta short shift - good for positive shifts
lightweight Kosei wheels with sticky 215 rubber- lighter is good

Looks like you are doing fine. Save your $$$ for driving schools and track days.

 

I'm glad you are having fun with your MINI! There are lots of upsides to aftermarket mods. There are downsides as well. Many people chalk up "it's cheaper" as an upside, but the $2K you save versus the Works package will be lost back at resale time, so when comparing, it's false to consider lower cost a true advantage. You'll need to spend $2500-$3500 to get to the level of the JCW kit. It is also pretty easy to spend $4500 (the cost of a Works kit) in aftermarket upgrades and end up in the same ballpark as the Works kit.

A big opportunity to save is by installing your aftermarket mods yourself, otherwise, you can easily add a thousand or two in installations...


For less upfront money but a destroyed warranty and diminished resale value, you can certainly get greater performance than the JCW kit, as you have discovered. Doubtful will it feel as smooth and factory integrated though.

The upsides to the Works kit have always been evident: factory smoothness, warranty coverage, and terrific resale status. It's only real downside has been the initial cost outlay for the performance gain. How "worth it" that is to you is how willing you are to part with that chunk of cash upfront.

 

Well, I know this has been talked and talked and talked, but just out of couriosity, what is an '04 MCS with the JCW works with, say, 40k miles going for these days?

 

I agree with Tarzan, I had a 2001 Audi S4 and it was modded big time. I would have payed 3k more to have all that warrantied.


I'm seriously considering the JCW package. I'm going today to order the MCS and I'll be talking about my options with my sales advisor. One of the main reasons I'm getting the car is the warranty. If it didnt have the warranty it has I may not get it.

~Will

 

This text posted by MINIHUNE in another thread is so well-put, I pasted it here...

"This brings up a good point. If you mod your car you must be aware that there are possible things that can happen with adverse effects so you will have to trust your ability to pick the "right -(trouble free)" upgrades, do the install correctly/safely (DIY or reliable mechanic), have a good source of info and advice (a trust worthy MINI tuner), and be responsible for the consequences in the case of a bad outcome.

The more we push our cars on the track or autocross and the greater the performance envelope the more things can go wrong and wear out or fail.

When I do a mod, I'm looking to see that all phases from planning to excecution, to maintenance are attended to. For all those who mod or plan to, we just have to be careful and responsible.

This also brings up questions about reliability when purchasing a "Used" MINI that has been modded by DIY methods. When possible,get documents showing which mods were added and by who."
__________________

 

Ok Tarzan I know you and not mant are as OCD as you but from experience I traded my modded "03" for a "05" JCW (just the engine kit so far) because I realized that I would not be racing and resale is very important. If you have ever priced a clasic car that is original against one that has been filled with aftermarket engine parts you'll see. There is a place for all of us.

 

I took a serious look at the JCW kit - and no doubt everything is top notch and well thought out BUT if we are strickly talking performance it falls short due to price. The kit is way over priced. Just divide cost by added ponies and those are really expensive ponies .

I find warranty talk and performance conflictive in it self but I still find it difficult to justify. Here is how you get around blowing the warranty - buy a used MNI w/ out warranty this way when you mod it - you have no concerns .

I am REALLY enjoying my MCS (coming from 911s and an NSX) , but I could never plunk down 40K for a MINI. To me one beauty about the car is how much performance you get for so little $ - at 40k levels this car for as good as it is is simply not worth.

Moment while I put on my flame retardant suit - okay got it on, proceed ......

bahamabart

 

For me it is a different issue.


I have come to realize that this car is my hobby. Doing the research and getting the input from all the NAM members....working with Randy, Eric, and especially Hector at Rspeed, trying things out....going to the dyno etc is all part of my hobby.....I am obviously obsessed.

If I were looking at this as a car only I would probably look at the Elise or the new Boxster S. Not much to mod just buy and drive......to me, at least for now, is boring. This is very similar to my guitar collection. I love to play (40+ years) but choosing this amp and that pedal with those tubes and these cables etc is the "hobby"

I love reading the threads by Rick, Onasled, JLM, Rhyphile, agokart, Andy, Msftoy, El (where are you), and all the rest of my NAM friends. The car is my hobby and buying the JCW would rob me of the fun I have selecting parts etc.

I fully respect those who find joy from the pride of the JCW badge as I have considered it from time to time especially when the car is not running as smooth as I would like but the aftermarket mods are the challenge and the fun for me.

 

This subject always gets plenty of response. If I decide to go back to the un-warranty side I would be on my way to Helix and Turbo this car and get plenty of HP. These cars are a life style and hobby and obsession comes with it. Any way you upgrade your MINI is great just as long as it is a MINI.

 

Well put SpiderX.
I agree, and for me it is also a hobby. I get alot of enjoyment and comraderie with fellow Motorers.

As to the warranty. Its all about your comfort level. I don't have a problem with people that want to keep up the warranty. I've always viewed them like an insurrance policy. And choose to self insure with the money I've saved. Its a gamble either way. You can pay the JCW premium and get the insurance (You might never need to use it, which would be a waste of money) or you can save the money up front, self insure, but you may need to cash in on that policy to pay for repairs. So for me, it balances out.

As to the resale value, everycar I've owned I've driven til the wheels fall off (Right now I have an Expedition Daily Driver with 290K still going strong). So, for ME, resale is of little concern.
And like Spider said, Its the Hobby I truly enjoy.

 

I agree... the relative low cost of the car makes it that much more enjoyable. My last car cost twice as much as I am paying for the MCS. I loved the car but was always feeling guilty for spending so much money on a car. I also like to work on my cars and I am looking forward to choosing and installing the performance mods.
The JCW package would be nice... and it would almost be worth it if it was a factory installed option with a total cost of $3750. But to buy a new car and then have it torn apart by the dealer and pay another $4k is not a good value in my book.
So I will go the do-it-yourself route and do the modest bolt-ons that yield descent power but are also proven reliable.

 

R1Eater from Texas? With the APR SIII on your S4? Are you one and the same?

 

The car's over-all warranty is not affected by installing after-market parts. Read the text of the Magnuson Moss Act. The first sentence sums it up very well, so I won't repeat it.

As for resale value, I've kept every single stock part in a box in my tool shed. If I decide to sell the car, they're all going back on the car. Yes, it will take me a solid weekend of work to do, but there will be two huge advantages to taking that time:

1. I'll get more for the car
2. I'll be able to sell the parts.

Score!

 

Don't count on the Magnuson act too much. When you change the pulley and create more HP by spiining the SC faster, you also are creating non-stock loads on the engine, tranny, driveline, etc... They can and will void the warranty and they will win. Besides, fighting it can be more expensive than the fix itself. It all depends on the dealer and the extent of the mods.

 

Except the JCW package adds those same loads, and it's still under warrantee. They MIGHT be able to get away with voiding the SC, but any drivetrain related issue can't logically be blamed on a pulley.

 

I am doing Larger Injectors, GIAC Flash, 17% pulley, intake (no exhaust yet) for around $1300-1500 and I was told by Helix I should easily pull on a JCW...I called my dealer and they wanted $6000 for the JCW install/package....

 

It amazes me the heated discussions continue about warranty concerns and an aftermaket pulleys. I venture to say there 5 million miles on MINI's with aftermarket pulleys. We aren't reading about daily occurances of engine failures due to pulley install. If any failures do start occuring, it will be long after manufacturer warranty has expired. I'm sure there will be the occansional engine or component failure. Will it be SC related... probably not... unless you are driving at 6K RPMs everywhere you go.

If you are so inclined to install a pulley yourself, then you are likely to fix any mechanical problem that may occur. If you have someone like Randy Webb or Helix install it... they stand behind it.

My dealer has not voided my warranty nor rejected service because I have an aftermarket pulley.

There are two kinds of MINIs (not the only way to classify us)
Wrench head and not...
if you don't like to tinker with cars, buy the JCW, get your HP and handling and you are done.
Me, I like to, so I do all the mods myself. If I blow up my engine, I'll fix it somehow or I'll get a used one for much less than JCW premium and drop it in. I know that is simplified, but these cars not not space ships and not impossible to work on.

They are cars meant to be enjoyed and to use a overused slogan "Have it your way!"

And I am enjoying the hell out of mine! And I plan on it for a long time.

BTW, my '03 MCS with a 19% pulley and 19mm sway bar did equally as well as an '05 JCW haulin' butt on the Dragon, so I'm pleased with my $500 worth of mod's.

Someone else can stand on the soap box now...

 

I totally disagree.. That still won't stop them from voiding your warranty on a non-JCW car. They will go by the stock values for the car when they fight you on warranty issues. I have gone thru this before on another car.
The pulley in this case will void just about everything under the hood. Same as turning up the boost on any other FI car. You are running non-stock loads which causes more stress on associated components.
Im sure some of the cost associated with the JCW has warranty factored into the mix. You may not see this as fair, but thats the way the manufacturer views it and they will be in the right to void the warranty.
The best thing to do is ask your dealer about mods. See what their tolerance is and hopefully, if something goes wrong, they will work with you. They can ignore some mods... but when they have to claim warranty work and the factory regional rep comes in to check it out, you better not have your mods showing..

 

I agree.. if you want to play, your gonna pay. My point is that the dealer is in the right to void your warranty IF they wanted to, because of a failure relating to possible problems caused by the pulley.
From what I know about this engine, it will indeed take alot of extra boost with no problems... but **** happens and you better not count on the warranty if it does.

 

The dealer has no right to void your warranty. That's an issue for MINI. Magnuson states that the manufacturer MUST PROVE that your aftermarket part caused the failure. Prove. Not infer; not assume -- but prove. That puts the burden on the manufacturer. Yes, you can lose, but more often than not, it's a burden the average manufacturer is not willing to undertake.

I've taken my car in for mysterious noises. They turned out to be coming from my after-market brakes. The dealer didn't charge me for the diagnosis, because they recognize that I'm bringing them service, and that by giving me a freebie, they've won my patronage.

They also replaced my transmission, even though they didn't find any specific problem with it. I told them it wasn't being friendly, and it was taken care of.

This is the nature of the MINI customer-service arm. They are friendly, inviting, and they want us to be happy. They know the fervent dedication we show toward these cars, and it is in their interest to try to make repeat customers of us. If your engine explodes and they see the word Alta on the side, they're not going to put down their tools and just point gape-jawed at the ne'er-do-well part -- they'll usually take the time to determine exactly what went wrong. And, if they refuse service (which is the dealer's right), we take the issue up the food-chain to 1-800-MINIUSA.

I would venture to say that *most* people don't wind up needing to do that.

There is a burden of proof that must be fulfilled. And it ain't our problem.

(Most people who are told "your warranty is void" are probably unaware of their rights, and accept what the dealerships tell them as true -- it's not)

 

Voiding your warranty and trying to charge you for a potential warranty repair due to a modification are two very different things.

For us, all it took was the threat of litigation (read: me telling the SM that my company had a lawyer on-staff) for one of our local BMW Dealers to roll over and act like a good boy (not on a MINI).

A co-worker's husband is the Service Manager at a Ford Dealer. He told me that it is their policy to attempt to charge for ALL warranty repairs on cars with aftermarket components that may even nominally affect the repair in question.

He also stated that it is their policy to back down if the client pushes back too hard. In four years they have had only 5 people challenge them legally, and every time the customer won.

You don't necessarily have to pay to play, but you do have to be ready to escalate the issue at the slightest hint that the Dealer may throw the M-M Act out the window. The reason they even attempt to deny service is because most people don't bother to pursue the issue.

 

A local dealership replaced a pullied car, under warranty, with an entirely new car and included a JCW kit for free. Guaranteed, they will offer you nothing at first - it is up to you to decide to fight (and win) or roll over.

 

Dead-on, sir! And well said.