Maybe I'm just in a delete happy mood tonight In any case, this thread has been edited.

I'm as tired of these threads going off into the wastebin as the next person, so let's do everything we can to keep this one from going that route. Keep your posts on topic and don't start vearing off into the ether.

This isn't directed at anyone specifically, but just something to keep in mind.

 

The mirror finish looks great!

Any chance of posting testing data showing how this "system" compares to stock, HAI, etc? Thanks.

 

That is well worn ground. M7 tuning has said repeatedly that they won't be posting that data. It's time to accept their decision and move on.

 

what exactly was wrong with my comment about ram air and the comparison to the stock intake system?
this seems like a reasonable response to msfit's comment about ram air.
why does that kind of remark place me in the "you know who you are" column and get deleted?

 

So M7 gets to post about products in the Discussion Forums without having to freely discuss their viability? Isn't that what the Vendor Announcements section is for?

 

Why not just make a forum rule that asking a vendor for data or other information is prohibited? Make this apply to questions about weight, price, etc. as well: anything that can be quantitatively defined. In fact, why allow people who aren't vendors to post at all?

My question was polite and 100% on-topic. Either change the forum rules or stop censoring technical questions in a technical forum.

 

Peter posted specifically looking for constructive feedback. That can not be achieved with a vendor announcements post. We're going to support that request. If you want to discuss other issues related to the heatshield OR another product, feel free to start your own thread. My specific request is that you keep this thread directly related to input that would help peter improve the product.
We're not going to prohibit asking vendors for data. In this case, that request has been made repeatedly. We all know the answer. M7 has decided not to provide that information. At best, harping on them for their decision in thread after thread doesn't serve to improve the situation, and only leads us down the path of derailing the thread. Accept that on the issue of M7 providing technical data, they have chosen not to do so. How that plays into each customer's decision to buy their products is up to them.

That's not to say the answer won't come out at some point. Some M7 early adopter will eventually test the intake and compare it to the HAI. I'm confident that will happen and that it will be dissected when it does.

 

Would you mind providing a list of acceptable replies for this thread? I am having trouble seeing exactly what is allowed and what isn't. Is this thread only for people professing their love for this product? How are we supposed to provide constructive feedback if we don't have information about the product? How are we supposed to get information about the product if we're not allowed to post it?

I would like to know details of exactly what this heatshield does, but apparently that sort of request isn't allowed. What exactly is allowed?

 

Andy it's very simple. M7 has stated that the technical data you are looking for is not what they are willing to provide. You and anybody else continuing to bludgeon them for it isn't going to change that.

It's one thing to ask questions about a product, it's another to ask a question when it's been made quite clear that you will not get the answer you seek.

Honestly if this is something that you're considering for your car, and having that data is that important to you, my suggestion is either A) Find an owner to do the testing you seek and provide you with that information, or B) Look to another vendor who will be able to provide you with the information you seek.

This is directed at EVERYBODY on this forum, not everyone feels that they need that degree of information in order to make the decision whether or not to buy parts for their car... And it's their car, and their money. You might be surprised at how many people actually aren't looking for a crusader to protect them from spending their money...

That's my take on this as both a NAM moderator, and as an MCS owner who needs a lot of convincing to put a performance mod on their car...

 

But is it appropriate for Peter to start a thread in the Performance Mods forum asking about how his product looks?

Peter made claims himself about how it works so why cannot he be questioned?

If there can be no substantial discussion (not simply cost or schedule) with Peter about his products then should he not be posting only in the Vendor Announcements and then let non vendors start a new thread that has some content to it?

 

So, let me get this straight. You are a moderator posting in the Performance Mods: Drivetrain forum. You are telling me (and everyone else) that it is unacceptable for forum members to ask for any sort of technical information about this DRIVETRAIN PERFORMANCE product? Does this policy apply to all parts by all vendors?

Again, since you and DiD apparently dislike what I posted (despite it being 100% ON TOPIC and within the forum rules), please let me know exactly what IS acceptable to post in this thread.

 

If have no problem with moving the thread to interior and exterior mods or beneath the bonnet if it fit better there.

My advice is simply this, Peter has made it clear that M7 will not quantify those claims. If your decision about the quality of this product is based on those claims being quantified, well then Peter's intentions of not providing that information for reasons all his own should make your decision for you...

 

Do you have this policy for all vendors? If I start selling a product and claim that it makes 100 hp, yet I refuse to provide any data to back that up ... can I get moderators to edit or delete any posts asking for that data?

 

No, the problem is M7 has decided not to release that information. M7 has made it clear that they have no intention of releasing that information.

So your badgering M7 for that information does nothing. It's not unacceptible to ask for technical information. It's unacceptable to ask for technical information that a vendor has said repeatedly that they will not release.

 

Gotcha. As long as the vendor says they have no intention of backing up their claims with any sort of scientific evidence, then moderators will stifle any discussion about that evidence. Is that what you are saying?

 

The thing is Andy in reading this thread, there's no claim of improved... well anything, with the exception of saying that Basalt is a rock that has heat rejecting qualities, and heck I learned that in eigth grade earth science.. I've even looked at the edited posts and I can't find any claims.

I haven't seen a claim of reduced weight, increased HP, worse MPG, or anything... So why come into this thread and ask M7 to back up claims here that they didn't make?

 

so why was my post deleted? what rule did that mess with?

 

:smile:

 

Everybody calm down...

I have removed LombardStreet's thread. While I understand what he was trying to do, and why he was doing it, it became quite evident that many didn't understand or agree with his reasoning. Although the main reason I removed it was because those who did post in the thread used it more as an opportunity to attack the NAM Moderation Team as well as each other, and such behavior is unacceptable.

Personally, if you want to ask M7 how their item works, I have no problems with that. Nor do I have any problems with M7 responding that the product uses PFM, or that the technique is proprietary. As I've said before M7 (and any other vendor for that matter) is free to release or withold whatever information about their products that they wish.

This comment actually goes for anybody looking to make a purchase from any vendor. If the need to have specific information that a vendor isn't interested in publicly releasing is what YOU need to make your purchasing decision I see a few routes for you. 1) Wait until another owner does the testing needed to provide the information you seek. 2) Contact (insert vender name here) privately and see if they are willing to privately discuss your concerns with you. Or 3) Choose a different vendor and/or product as (insert vendor name here) is unwilling or unable to meet your needs or desires.

jlm, I don't know why the post you reference was deleted, I didn't do it and I won't offer opinions on why it was done. If the moderator who deleted that post wishes to comment on it I'm sure they will do so privately.

The moderation team here on NAM understands that this thread was started poorly, while we don't condone how it was done, given how a vocal group here has treated M7 I understand what caused it.

The biggest problem here is that the people who seem to have the biggest issues with M7 are to the best that I can tell people who have never bought an M7 product and based on their past comments don't appear to have any intention of buying an M7 product ever. From what I've seen other vendors here on NAM have similar issues.

So the question I have is, if you're not an (insert target vendor name here) customer and have no intentions of becoming one, why post in threads about their product making derisive comments or asking questions that the vendor has made it clear that they will not answer?

 

So you're telling me that because I never bought an M7 product I'm not allowed to criticize their products? I've said it quite a few times, as has Andy and a few other people that if M7 can show with numbers that their AGS does what it says then I'd buy one no questions asked. It's not a personal vendetta against Peter or M7. It's just that I can't see buying something that isn't proven and right now the AGs isn't proven. Yeah in theory it seems to work well but theories are just theories and sometimes reality can be very different.



I'm all for editing out posts that are off topic or that are bait basically but censoring people just cause they don't agree goes against everything that these message boards set out to do.

Mike

 

I'm very interested in finding out more about this product, but somehow every time I try to read through a thread about it I find myself bogged down in endless complaints about the moderation on this board.

Moderators, is there any way to split the "flame the moderation" bits of this out into a separate thread so that those who are interested in the actual product can follow the thread without having to skip 2 of every 3 posts.

A fundamental truth that is often missed on internet forums: You only get to say things because the moderators let you, so complaining that they censor negative things you say about them inherently disproves your point.

I'm continually stunned by how little appreciation is shown for volunteer moderators who spend their valuable time trying to make these discussions more valuable and accessible for all of us.

 

Ditto.

 

I'm working on the split now

EDIT: these posts were originally part of the M7 heatshield thread. They have been split off to get that thread back on topic. If anyone has anything else that regarding the posts above, PM it to either mferguson or myself.