for another 2800 you could have had 250+whp
I should know I dumped way too much in for such little HP... why do you think I spent money trying to figure out how to make HP with this car?
now back to the thread of how to make your car sound like it has hp...

 

 

Just because the little tube has 10% more flow doesn't mean it's any more efficient. Noone has actually proven its a restriction in the intake path. For the size blower we have on our cars the stock tube may be able to flow plenty of volume. It's obvious that noone has done any testing on this so you can ramble on and on about 10% more flow but who know's if 10% more flow is needed there if you get my point.

It's the same way with the stock downpipe on the cooper S. There is a big bottleneck in it, yet aftermarket headers don't really seem to add big power numbers. The reason is because maybe the stock downpipe, with it's bottleneck, flows plenty for stock and lightly modified Cooper S.

The AGS may work but I'm willing to bet you won't see a big difference if any at all on cars with basic bolt ons. However if you have a ton of headwork, big ported charger, and everything maybe it will be a restriction at that point. None of us really know since noone has ever tested any of this.

I'm not knocking M7 or the AGS just mearly trying to state from a mechanical standpoint 10% better flow doesn't always result in gains.

Oh and one last thing. For those of you saying you can feel the difference you're full of crap Most people say that gains have to be 7hp or greater to feel anything and most intakes simply won't be giving that large of gains. You may feel better throttle response but that's it.
Mike

 

I'll expand on Andy's () with a question:

How does your assumed 15% efficiency increase manifest itself?

I understand fuel efficiency - I use X% less gas.

I don't really understand how an intake can be more efficient. In this case does less restrictive mean more efficient? It comes back to whether (and how much) the intake is the bottleneck in the system, and how the flow characteristics change the shape under the torque curve.
It will be interesting to see some datapoints! Thanks for being one to provide them!

 

Who cares about power gain? It sounds good..that's what really matter!

 

Wow... someone with an actual clue

 

TOOOOOO many drama queens for me. JCampos, who gives a dam what other people say. You got, you happy...that is all that matters.

ZM

 

The AGS is simply the intake to have to bring out the most of our current or future mods PERIOD.
Disagree all you want,but I bet some of you will get in line when you get half a clue.

 

that is EXACTLY the problem... NOTHING HAS BEEN PROVEN....

 

I've been in LV enjoying the sun and fun, thought I would check what's going on. Obvoiusly there are those here with a bone to pick.

I would question those that denigrate the product to please provide your credentials. What is your background in fluid flow? What is your background in ventilation systems design? Do any of you, attempting to drag this product down, have any type of an engineering background?

An engine is an air pump, in simple terms. Reducing the number of headloss causing restrictions, in any system, improves the efficiency of the system. If you improve the efficiency of the intake side of a pump, you improve the overall efficiency of the pump. This is not opinion, it is fact.

Will this translate to an HP increase in this system? Maybe yes, maybe no, but all of you that are dragging this down are amusing. But that's about it.

 

Damn what a bunch of nut-swingers some of you guys are... I tried to think of a better term, but it's really the only thing that describes some of you.

Since when is it the detractor's role to prove that something doesn't work. If I believed it doesn't work why on earth would i spend money to buy it and test. The issue that keeps coming up is that there's been little or no evidence to show what it does - or even what it is for that matter.

How there can be so many people convinced - at this point - that it's the best thing EVER is beyond me. I've tried to quit commenting on it because honestly I'll never buy one (because I already have an intake and won't change it until the turbo goes on). You can't go two posts around this place lately though without some M7 groupie - or M7 themselves slinging an advertisement in your face. (yes, I'm aware this thread was obvoiusly M7 related, but the behavior can be found in many other threads as well).

I firmly believe there should be one AGS thread, one hood scoop thread and if you need more go continue your fanclub elsewhere.

 

BTW..


the earth is flat

 

I've been mod'ing with that premise (engine = air pump) for the past year or so... After gutting-out the battery box to install a larger diameter (2.5") straight exit exhaust, the AGS simply plays into this approach. It just makes sense to me in the big picture of what I'm trying to do...

And speaking of exhausts, folks pay 2 or even 3x what an AGS costs for a handful of hp, for many, because they like the sound. It is factor to some, and would guess to all, at least to some degree. No right or wrong here, just preference...

There are many products that don't interest me, for whatever reason. And with that, there are corresponding threads for those items. I just don't feel compelled to go into each one of those and share why I don't find it appealing. I guess some think differently in how they wish to express themselves... No biggie.

 

JeffS wrote - Damn what a bunch of nut-swingers some of you guys are... I tried to think of a better term, but it's really the only thing that describes some of you.

Well Jeff, did you come up with a catchy name for those with a personal axe to grind? I didn' think so.

JeffS also wrote - Since when is it the detractor's role to prove that something doesn't work.

I don't care if you prove that it doesn't work, or that it does. But most of those that are dragging the product through the dirt have a personal axe to grind. The others appear to be simple band wagon types that enjoy the pile on after the fact. BTW, I didn't ask any one to prove that it works, just their credentials. I mean, when was the last time you asked your mechanic for their opinion on a stock purchase?

Then JeffS wrote - If I believed it doesn't work why on earth would i spend money to buy it and test. The issue that keeps coming up is that there's been little or no evidence to show what it does - or even what it is for that matter.

Jeff, do a simple search of the threads, you can see what it looks like, do you need some help?

Later JeffS said - How there can be so many people convinced - at this point - that it's the best thing EVER is beyond me. I've tried to quit commenting on it because honestly I'll never buy one (because I already have an intake and won't change it until the turbo goes on).

Jeff, did you buy that intake based on the data provided by the vendor, did you buy it based on the word of someone else, or did you buy it and then test it? Just curious, something motivated you to make the purchase.

Then JeffS said - You can't go two posts around this place lately though without some M7 groupie - or M7 themselves slinging an advertisement in your face. (yes, I'm aware this thread was obvoiusly M7 related, but the behavior can be found in many other threads as well).

That's just an obvious exaggeration.

Finally JeffS told us - I firmly believe there should be one AGS thread, one hood scoop thread and if you need more go continue your fanclub elsewhere.

JeffS your entitled to your opinion, just as those who like the product, and if you don't enjoy reading those post that are related to M7 products, then don't, but what gives you the right to tell others to go somewhere else?

 

Personally I have no true training but I have some common sense and a general knowledge of all things automotive.

Just because you enlarge something doesn't mean you'll make more HP. You'll only make more HP if it's a restriction in the first place which so far noone has proven.

Speaking of automotive background what is Peter's? He's the mini guru who thinks outside the box so I'd be curious as to where he got all his training from
Mike

 

So, with that "general knowledge" and your statement about making things larger, I guess a larger Injector will not flow more gas, or a larger intake won't flow more?

So all those years when people were adding larger intakes and carbs to their cars was all wasted?

Have you gone back and looked at the threads dealing with this? Have you looked at the side by side pictures?

Do you have an aftermarket intake (filter) on your car? What prompted you to purchase? Did you notice a better driving experience? Did you notice an increase in HP?

Look at the stock system with the small area used for air intake, look at the length of the runner from the air inlet to the stock airbox, look at the length of the runner from the air box to the inlet of the SC, look at all of the twists, bends, and the material used. Every reduction in the length of the runner, the reduction in the number of bends and direction changes, reduces the headloss. Air is essentially a fluid.

Head loss is a measure of the reduction in the total head (sum of elevation head, velocity head and pressure head) of the fluid as it moves through a fluid system. Head loss is unavoidable in real fluids. It is present because of: the friction between the fluid and the walls of the pipe; the friction between adjacent fluid particles as they move relative to one another; and the turbulence caused whenever the flow is redirected or affected in any way by such components as piping entrances and exits, pumps, valves, flow reducers, and fittings.

Frictional loss is that part of the total head loss that occurs as the fluid flows through straight pipes. The head loss for fluid flow is directly proportional to the length of pipe, the square of the fluid velocity, and a term accounting for fluid friction called the friction factor. The head loss is inversely proportional to the diameter of the pipe.

 

several confusions:

when the throttle b/f is only a bit open, any claims about more performance due to less flow restriction downstream are questionable;
more volume does not mean more power;
there are examples where larger port size is a detriment, as larger cross section means, in general, lower velocity, and at times velocity is the more relelvant measure.

in general, removing flow restictions is a great idea, but other than demonstrating a groovy sound, any other claims about perfomance gains are unsupported hooey, easily disproved by any sort of data?

 

Jim, that's true but the argument of velocity isn't very strong when it comes to a supercharged engine. The SC always keeps the air flowing so the engine doesn't need to do the work. When I helped my friend put a free flowing intake (similar to the HAI) on his NA mr2, he lost that low end throttle response from that last of flow - but he gained lots in the high end. Since the MINI has the SC constantly pushing air into the engine (even at idle with the bypass valve open), it shouldn't loose the throttle response or low end punch like a NA engine would.

 

I'm not saying the AGS works or doesn't work, I'm mearly saying that if the tube isn't actually a restriction then the new AGS tube flowing 10% more won't make a difference save for make sharpening throttle response since the intake path is now shorter. Can we agree on that?

Currently the intake on my car is stock. There isn't a system on the market that really appeals to me. Honestly if someone can actually prove the AGS works, and by proving I mean either some dyno numbers or some data logging I'd call Peter and order one. If it works then thats wonderful but people just saying it works isn't going to sell me.

And in the past when things like carbs were still used they were very restrictive along with the intake manifold but most of the time on modern cars you just don't see big gains from intakes and exhausts since the factory generally does a pretty good job with them these days. Gone are the days of crimped small diameter tubing and tiny carbs.
Mike

 

Im done with this thread.

 

Wait!...you can't just end it like that!...How about the dyno that you promised?

 

Nope. You dont get em. Im done with all of you doubters. Ill send dyno numbers to Peter, he can deal with all the idiots.

 

No photoshop retouching ok?

 

Actually, its not the doubters.... its the ******* remarks. So, for all who wanted dyno numbers, thank El Diablito and his crew for ****** it up.

 

"The El Diablito Crew" THATS SOME FUNNNNNNYYYYY SHEEEEEET.