Been swamped this weekend with work, sorry for the slow replys.

Dr Obnxs,
Like i have said before there are 2 types of people that are interested in crank pulleys. One is the guy who wants that extra edge of performance (either by lighter weight or larger size) and the guy who is worried about thier warranty or engine life. The guy who is wanting the extra performance from his car is the guy who should be buying our pulley. The guy who is worried about warranty or engine life should stick to the stock part.

We make parts to make your car go faster. Some effect engine life and some don't. Take a look at a smaller SC pulley! The added boost and stress on your engine surely takes away from some engine life, bearing wear.....

I belive you are trying to convice your self to buy a crank pulley or not, by your statements. I have been giving you reasons to NOT worry and maybe some that WILL make you worry. I hope you see there is both sides to this. The fact that the engine designer from Chrysler said they had a test car with 100K with no dampener should make you NOT worry. But on the other hand, you are putting a high performance part on your car, that gives you more HP than your engine is designed for, that SHOULD make you worry.

I think everyone here should always worry some. When ever you put an aftermarket part on your car that gives you more HP than the engine and ECU were designed for, it should make you worry. There is always a risks. But people wouldn't be buying parts to make their car faster if they weren't willing to take that risk.

I risk my engine life everyday driving around a car with double the stock HP. The day it breaks, i am not going to be mad at.... well us, that the car broke. I knew the risks, and i was absolutley willing to take them!

90% of us here live on the edge of performance and love it! There is no way i am going back to stock HP because i am worried my engine won't last 200K.

I am not trying to scare people here at all, just trying to make people understand that there are risks.

Originally Posted by Alta2
ANSWER,
What i was trying to show is that the difference in weight from stock to ours was significant, and from stock to the other isn't. The percentages are just a simple stock/ours and stock/theirs.
"While this is true too, quoting the percentages is a bit missleading, especially when a better estimate can be done with a little work. For those not educated in the math and physics, the implication is clear and inaccurate. "

Maybe i should have made more clear the percentages are a simple stock vs. ours and stock vs. theirs regarding weight which is what i originally wrote. The WHP numbers will surely hold true! If you have our pulley that makes 10WHP because of it being lighter by a huge amount over the stock part, the other part that isn't that much lighter than stock isn't going to make anywhere near that 10WHP. How does knowledge of physics have anything to do with that. The percentages were a simple way to show people how our part will make a bigger differnce because of it being significantly lighter.

You said that the lighter crank pulley doens't give you HP while you are sitting there holding at an RPM. Your right. Say you are on the dyno and the dyno is holding the RPM at 4000. The WHP is X and weather or not the crank pulley is light or heavy, the HP number is the same. But during a "Glory Run" the crank pulley does make a difference. Since it is lighter the engine will accelerate quicker, giving a higher HP number. There is no way you can argue against it. Lighter rotateing assembly gives you more WHP. I say Wheel HP, not engine HP. Just like lighter wheels, and a flywheel give you WHP, not engine HP. WHP is what people should be concerned with, because this is what moves the car and is the only true measurement(unless the engine is pulled out of the car).

Originally Posted by Alta2
And the HP is just a rough guess. In some ways it is very correct. The fact that HP is Measure over time, and you would agree that the lighter part will allow the engine to spin up faster. The lighter part that gains HP by removing a significant amount of weight. That much heavier part is surely not going to gain as much HP. Just like a lighter flywheel is worth more WHP, and faster quarter mile times, the crank pulley does the same, just on a smaller scale.
"This is true, but it's also dependant on the rate of change of RPM. If you hold RPM and measure HP, there is NO difference based on the lighter rotating mass. The best way to do it is to ramp the RPM the same rate that you get in a 0-60 launch, so that the energy required per time to accelerate the rotating assembies mimics the real world of drag racing... But this would be a big PITA, so......."

This isn't a big PITA because 90% of the dynos out there are accurate enought to do this. For instance many of them like the mustang dyno, can simulate wind resistance as the speed goes higher. What this means is if your car now takes 20 seconds to go from 2000RPM to 7000RPM in 3rd gear, the dyno will mimic this. So the 0-60 test as well as quarter mile tests can be done on the dyno. Since HP is measure over time, anything that will make the time go by quicker translates into more power.

I don't think anyone here can argue that the crank pulley doens't give you WHP, because it does.

Anyway, i hope this response doesn't come across negative in anyway, just like you said "i am trying to keep things accurate".

 

BelowRadar,
Crono pack is next for us to look at. It shoun't be a problem, just something that we will have to decide how it is supposed to look.

The FMIC is something we have been thinking about for a while and definitely is something to look out for. Preliminary ideas have shown a retail price somewhere in the $2000 range. But like you said even if you have the best IC out there that stock SC is pretty limiting it the ultimate HP. Now someone with a twincharged kit could really benifit from this. That is who we would be making this for. And of course there would be those people who would buy it because of how cool it is!

 

Yes they are finally here, give us or your dealer a call! 2%, 3%, and some 4%. 4% are for the special people willing to test fit them. These are still one we are not sure will work 100%.

 

the physics is that angular acceleration is proportional to moment of inertia. and tha moment of inertia is relate to, bu is not proportional to weight, rather it depends very specifically on the geometric distribution of mass. that being said, the Alta probably has smaller moment than the stock or the Pilo.

its been a while since I considered rotational dynamics, but:
as far as producing more power:
angular acceleration means a change in engine rpm. which means a lowered moment will allow a more rapid change in rpm. for an engine, power is proportional to torque and rpm, so technically it does not matter how fast you can change rpm, only the actual rpm and the torque at that rpm matter.
another point of view is that power is the rate of doing work; if you can do the same amount of work, but do it in less time, you are using more power. the work is proportional to the torque, so intuitively, if you can generate more torque in less time, it would seem you are using more power.
most dynos measure the rate of angular acceleration of their rolls (how quickly the rolls speed up) , suitably loading the engine at the same time. My guess is the moment of the rolls is huge compared to the car's wheels, and drive and especially the crank pulley.

comments?

 

I put the Alta on last night but with the stock hose. Alta claims that it makes about 1 1/2 - 2 hp difference. On my car so far I am not impressed with the down low power and acceleration. I am very impressed with what happens after about 4750 rpm. Does the hose help throttle response etc?

 

I hope I have this straight in my mind. I have the JCW engine upgrade and I think the SC pulley reduction is around 14.3%. I was thinking that the Alta 2% larger crank pulley may be an easy way to get some added horse power. My question is this, since this pulley is under a load, does the fact that it has a larger circumference make it any harder for the engine to spin it. I think of this like a ten speed bike, its harder to peddle in tenth (larger front sprocket, crank pulley) than it is in 5th, the smaller sprocket (smaller crank pulley). Is there any engine efficiency that is lost purely because you are spinning something that is harder to spin, regardless of the gains made by the increased spinning speed of the SC.

 

JLM,
Yes all of that is right, but as you said, if it take less time to go from 1000-7000RPM, (on the dyno) you will see more HP. This is because it is measure in work done over time. Just like you said.

Either way the WHP gain by the part is simply had because the engine can accelerate quicker. This i felt in quarter mile time and 0-60 times. There really shouldn't be any argument that the pulley makes the car faster, because it does. Just like putting a lighter flywheel on the car, it makes it faster, and adds more WHP. Not engine HP but wheel HP.

SpiderX,
We absolutely stick to our 10-12WHP gain from our intake with the tube. But with out it, a more realistic number is 5-6WHP. The intake with out the tube was not the original design. It was simply produced to make a more comparable intake to others being sold at the time. And only comparable in price.

With any intake, you shouldn't loose anything. It may just be the butt dyno acting up. The power you feel up top is normal. With the intake the 12WHP gain is right around 5500 and at redline its about 10. At the lower RPMS the gain is anywhere from 5-8 WHP. The tube has an ID of 2.75" and the stocker is about 2.25" It is a big difference in size, and less restirciton over the stock part. That is the reason why we originally designed it with the hose. It is never too late to get one.

Oban2002,
Your thinking is correct, but the difference from one size to the next isn't very much at all. I would guess the added sizes are not even an tenth of a pound more. Also look at your flywheel, it is much bigger around.

 

not in the slightest. I just strive for acuracy in the descriptions of what is happening and the physics behind what is claimed. If you re read my posts, I make NO CLAIM as to weather your part increases risk to the motor or not. All I did was point out where you did inacurate descriptions or comparisons. The fact is that the benefit of reduced rotational mass in the driveline shows up as increased effective hp gains that depend on the rate that you ramp the RPMs is a fact that cannot be argued in any way based on science. It is also true and incontrivertable that a comparisons of MASS while not considering MOMENT is a misleading claim when trying to imply relative benefit. This frustrates me no end when I go to wheel web sites that list weights only, and no moments. This is all fine and true, but making a claim for all based on one test STILL isn't statistically sound. Any claim based on a single data point has very low confidence.Bravo. Just do it with sound science and realistic implication.

I do think that your part is a quality part. But I see almost a total absence of accurate descriptions of the effects of and benefits from reducing rotational mass in almost all marketing liturature. Most people haven't had formal education that has exposed them to the concepts or the math. I also have concerns for mixed messages or fuzzy comparisons that make suspect claims.

This isn't about what is better or worse, it's about accuracy of description. Me too! the concepts of power and work and energy are not a mystery. The are pretty basic concepts. All this stuff is pretty simple when the correct formalisms are employed. One area that leads to misenterpretation is WHP. That is a TEST DEPENDANT MEASUREMENT that depends on many items. Even SAE correction doesn't back out the effect of RPM ramp, as the rotational mass of the engine under test would be needed to figure it out. And this number is traded around as though it is independant of RPM ramp, and that's just innacurate.So anyway, I'm not angary or anything, but there sure is a lot of messy descriptions of the origins of potential benefits to our cars. You just got lucky that I read your posts!

Matt

 

Will fit the 05 MCS?

 

Yes it will, I have one on my 05.

 

Thank you guys (Jeff, Adam, and John) for your contribution at the PDX MINI mod day!

I have a few questions regarding IC and crank pulley.

Top mount IC:
1. How does the sprayer work?
2. How about the water reservoir?
3. Does it come with a switch to operate the sprayer?

Crank pulley:
1. Do I need special tools to remove it?
2. Once the original one is removed, can it be remounted? Or is it like the SC pulley that there's no going back?

Thank you! :smile:

Dave

 

The factory SC pully is an interference fit. That means the hole is a little smaller than the shaft, and it's attached by heating the pully so it expands, and then putting it back onto the room temp shaft, and just let it cool! It's a PITA, but doable. I think Alta or others have a stock pully diameter if you need that. Then it's pretty easy to go back to stock diameter, but not the original pully. Then you just loosen the screws that clamp the pully onto the shaft, and change over. Of course, I'm not mentioning getting access or the belt tension, but that's why it's called work!

Matt

 

I have your TMIC, the early one, without the cast end-tanks. The fit is very tight, as it seems about a 1/4 inch longer than the stock unit. While it does fit, using the clamps is a bit more of a pain, and it takes a little longer to get on than the stock.... Anyway, is this the same with the newer rev with the cast endcaps?

Also, for those of us that are after every bit of flow, is there an exchange or upgrade deal to get to the latest and greatest? Or do we have to sell off the old one to buy the new....

Thanks!

Matt

(see, I can be a softy too!)

 

Dr.
You approach things a little different that us. To you, and people like you, you want one type of info about a part, where as others want a different type of info. 90% of the people that are interested in this part just need to be told that the lighter weight makes the car move faster. End of story, they like that explanation, and in their mind know it will make the car faster. When they install the part they will notice the car being a little faster, they will notice it will free rev quicker, they will notice how between shifts it will drop into gear better......

Your science is correct, but like i said WHP is what matters. I don't care what anyone says, it is what it is, WHEEL HP. This is what moves your car, and is the only thing accurate when measuring HP on a car. The SAE corrected thing is not accurate at all. I have one dyno claim one thing, mainly a dynoJET, and another dyno read another. DynoJet is always higher WHP even when corrected. The SAE thing is a juke in my mind. I have also seen many dynos read engine HP, this too is something that is not accurate at all.

My descriptions are correct(HP related), and on a dyno you will see the WHP gained and down the quarter mile you will also. Maybe you haven't driven a car with both a lightened flywheel and pulley. There is a significant difference and feel. I don't belive i have mislead anyone to what the crank pulley does. I have also made very genereic, or layman type descriptions as to why it may or may not hurt your car. This layman type way of describing things is our way of answering 90% of our customers questions. Only when people like you ask in a more detailed way do we get into finite details.

With both of our desciptions on things we will be touching on both types of people interested in the part. Hopefulley people have read our older posts regarding crank pulleys because there is lots of good info going both ways.

How about a good deal on a pulley? I would like to know what the DR says and feels.


dcsmd007,
No problem we had lots of fun. Please keep us posted for the days, we will be there!

TMIC,
1. very simply, just either tee it into the existing rear window sprayer or disconnect the rear window sprayer and hook it directly to the hose. So you either have it activate with your rear wiper or your rear wiper will wipe but no spray. Just depends on what floats your boat.
2.Use the stock rear wiper reservoir is the simplest. Some people have tried using an auxilliery container, but there is not many places to put it.
3.No, but our directions tell you how to hook it up using your existing rear wiper switch. It would be very simple to hook it up to another switch, but the stock switch is very clean and stealthy.

Crank Pulley,
1. yes you need the mini tool to remove it, or i am sure you can use an existing puller with the right screws. But the factory part is very cheap, so it is simpler just to buy that one.
2.Since both our crank pulley and the stock one are a press fit, it is a reusable part. To a point of course, maybe after 10 times it wont press on as tight but no one should be changing it that many times.

Dr,
Both the old and the new IC are the same width. It is longer, but it is longer to give you more cooling surface area. Since the stock IC couplers are a hump hose type, they can extend or retract quite a bit. We took advantage of this by making it the IC longer as much as possible. It does take longer than stock but you shouldn't have to be removing it offten. Are you?

I was reading a post about people having to remove thier IC to check their spark plugs, and this was a reason why they thought it was important to make it easy to remove. If people are using an Iridium plug they should never check it! These types of plugs WILL last 200K with normal driving. With abusive driving, maybe 100K. They should never be pulled basically. Don't use copper or platinum and you will never have to worry. There is some great info on the denso site as to why iridium is the best. Just take a look at many of the new high performance cars, many are now coming with IR plugs. (sorry about the tangent)

We don't offer anything like that, but you never know, anything we can do to keep you happy. If you are willing to dyno the IC, before and after, and after(3rd gen IC) we will make it worth your while! (Hey, i can be a softy myself! Oh ya, i always am one)

With all this IC talk the last week, i we will be comparing our IC to others to show why ours is the best choice. Be on the look out for data.

 

Jeff, Matt (the Dr.) is referring to a known problem of spark plugs backing-out on us. Here is a link to a recent discussion. Within, there is a link to Randy Webb's site where he notes this concern:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ght=spark+plug

 

We had a customer recently blame us for his spark plugs backing out becaue of too much boost. We laughed, but that makes more sense if it is happening to many people. There must be some easy fix for this. Have to do some researching. Maybe machining, or bad crush washer.

Thanks for the heads up!

 

Maybe they come out from not enough boost ;-) May need that extra pressure to keep them from spinning...lol

 

With all the Larger TMIC news being thrown around i figured it would be a good time to refresh peoples minds about our part.

MSRP = $739.99

The ALTA Performance intercooler core is 12.75in x 10in x 1.75in and weighs 7.2lbs

The stock intercooler core is 10.75in x 6.25in x 2in weighs 3.1lbs

Our intercooler core is purposely shallow (not as thick as stock) to enhance airflow through the intercooler increasing efficiency.


Our bar and plate cores are vacuum brazed under strict conditions. Bar and plate cores are capable of withstanding the higher pressure as compared to standard conventional tube and fin intercooler cores. Bar and plate designs have uniform dimensions across the entire core as compared to the standard tube and fin designs that utilize a larger header plate, giveing it some false dimensions. Bar and plate intercoolers can withstand higher debris impacts with out core failure. This is due to the thicker BAR on the front, compared to a extruded tube which is very thin.

The ALTA Performance™ air-to-air intercooler is 100% larger or 2 times the surface area than the factory unit. Our intercooler still fits under the factory hood with no cutting or trimming even though size is nearly doubled. Overall internal volume is increased by over 40%.

Dyno results on otherwise stock mini cooper s show 7 hp and 5 ft/lbs torque at the wheels from 2000 rpm to redline and beyond. Modified cars (pulley, intake and exhaust) produce an additional 9-11 hp and 7-9 ft/lbs torque. This was early testing done by Randy Webb, when we used machined end tanks where as now they are much smoother and better castings.

The ALTA Performance top mount intercooler comes with a 1 year, unlimited mileage, warranty.
All warranty claims are handled here, in the United States, by The manufacturer, ALTA Performance.

All intercoolers are individually pressure tested on our custom-made bench jig to guarantee leak-free performance. (Except the poor guy in Texas who was missing an entire seam weld…sorry. Our bad.)

Don’t forget the extra goodies. Powder coated steel air diverter to maximize air flow, integrated water spray kit to increase efficiency by up to 200%, license plate frames and stickers to boot.

Here are some images just for the nam community……
Notice the first picture, it shows the original design ALTA IC with the tube and fin core. You can see the other flaw with the tube and fin in that there are tubes that stick into the tank. Why this is bad, is that some of the air that passes through the core has to do 2 180 turns to get through it. The bar and plate core, in this same situation, the air has to do 2 90 turns to make it through the core. This is all at the header plates where the air travels from the tank to the core.

http://www.altaminiperformance.com/A...Test/ic_01.jpg
http://www.altaminiperformance.com/A...Test/ic_02.jpg
http://www.altaminiperformance.com/A...Test/ic_03.jpg
http://www.altaminiperformance.com/A...Test/ic_04.jpg

 

with respect tothe cross section presented to the flowing combustion air, have you ever compared the open area of the stock intercooler to the open area of your plate and bar type?

also the stock intercooler crimps the alternate tubes closed, providing a sort of tapered port for the air to enter, but the plate and bar types simpy have a rectangular hole in a plate. comments?

 

jlm,
The internals of the mini core are very good because of those crimps between the tubes. This makes for a nice transition of air through the charge air side of the core. Is this better than our core and others? Yes it is, but the way these are constructed leads to a very expensive intercooler. This type of construction, which is not very restrictive, leads to the really low pressure drop that occures with the stock core. The stock core flows great, but doesn't cool great. That is why with testing of the IC's you will always see a larger pressure drop with aftermarket cores. The pressure drop seen has nothing to volume, it has to do with restriction.

The internal openings on the stock core are .5", but quickly taper to .25". There are 11 openings total, and the outside 2 only have 1 ambient set of cooling fins. A rough estimate of core volume is 51.69 cu-in.

The internal opening of our core is .375" and stays this way the whole way through the core. There are 12 openings, all of which have 2 sets of ambient cooling fins. A rough estimate of core volume is 73.13 cu-in. about 50% bigger volume.

With both bar & plate, and tube & fin type cores availible to the aftermarket, the bar and plate is much better for flow and cooling compared to tube and fin. That is why we choose it.

I hope that answers your questions about our core, let me know if there is some other way you would like us to compare them.

 

thx

 

Dear Customer Service

I have just purchased an Alta Oil Catch Can through Out Motoring. I have followed the instruction for 03 model when I installed it but I have found that the supplied hose was too short and the wire tie were not supplied.

What should I do .

Regards
Nawaphansa Yugala

 

for any of you interested in the crank pulley, they have them listed for sale on their site now.

Here is a link to the page.

http://www.altaminiperformance.com/p...ankpulley.html

I just got mine today and it is a very nice part! I will post more on it once I get it installed.

 

pyugala,
If you are refering to the silicone hose, we supply 7ft of it to reach any mounting location. If you need more, just let us know and we can send it to you right away.

 

detlman,
Thanks for the plug, and yes they are shipping.
We have also confirmed the 4% working, i would love to see someone try out the 23% combo!