After sitting on the sidelines for a year and a half waiting on MINI to build cars with LSD, I ordered my MCS on 2/5. Then I waited another month and a half for the car to come in. Finally, after patiently enduring the torturous week and a half it took me to complete the break-in process, tonight was the big night. The verdict is in.... [drum roll, please]

The car is awesome. It's quick, fun and responsive. But, of course it's not quite enough, right? If it were, why would we need this forum!

So here's the deal: It has big shoes to fill. For the last five years, I've driven an E36 M3, which is still a really great car even ten years after BMW first brought them to the US.

I have the following performance goals for the MCS: 1) He needs to provide the same point & shoot fun the M3 did; 2) He needs to be capable of evolving into more than just a fun car. I want to make him fast!

Both these goals seem quite attainable to me. Heck, much of what I want is already there. The '05 changes to an already great car gave me a fantastic starting place. The bump in power, combined with the improved gearing and a set of 17" SSR Comp's gives the car a very nice throttle response.

So here's the plan:

• Enjoy as-is until Charlotte Pulley Party
• Acquire $1500
• Stage 1 - install a nice CAI, -17% SC pulley, colder plugs and UNIchip
• Evaluate progress & enjoy results
• Acquire $1000
• Stage 2 - install +2% lightweight crank pulley, JCW injectors, Pilo coil/wires/even colder plugs; retune UNIchip
• Evaluate progress & enjoy results
• Acquire $1000
• Stage 3 - install big bore throttle body and Milltek cat-back
• Enjoy results until '07 Turbo MCS spoils the party!

Another goal is to develop the car up to (or just beyond) and JCW car for just over half the cost of the JCW kit + install. Based on experience, does this sound like an approach that will meet this goal?

To me, developing the car is a large part of the fun. The reason for my staged approach is to experience incremental but substantial improvements, to spread the cost over time, and to create opportune stopping places if I become satisfied at any point along the way.

There is certainly nothing especially creative or revolutionary about this plan. In some ways that is the beauty of it. Most of these mods produce known results. What I hope for is a package that makes my MCS fast, fun and reliable. And, there are still plenty of additional mods that can be added to the list if the need arises. I just think this package has the potential to meet my needs.

[Disclaimer: Of course I plan to do comensurate handling and braking mods as well. All the power without handling and braking would be neithre fun nor safe. Just trying to stay in keeping with the theme of this forum. :smile: ]

Your comments, suggestions & advice are appreciated.

 

This is not an answer to your question, but how do you like the 17" SSR Comps? I'm thinking about these as my only performance mod to my MINI (previously had an A4 which I modded a ton (150hp->271hp + lots of other goodies) and kinda got over the whole modification thing), but I'm a bit afraid of the 17's being a bit soft for the road. I'm not in an area with really horrible potholes or anything, but we have our share of not-so-great roads.

I'm sort of set on SSR Comps at some point down the line (I have the money to do it at any time, just waiting for whenever I feel like I can't wait any more ), but the decision is between 15's, 16's, and 17's. 17's are preferable for looks, and with a wheel as light as the SSR Comp, 15's might even feel *too* light, so I'm not sure. Just thought I'd ask your opinion.

Thanks!

-mike

 

I love 'em. Right now they're my only mod. I'm running 215/45/17 Goodyear F1 GS-D3's with a stock suspension. The car feels great. When I was deliberating, I had the same concerns. For me it was 16's vs. 17's. I chose the 17's after several conversations with different owners, mostly BMW guys. None of them had any trouble. I don't think you can go wrong either way. I chose the 17's mostly because the trend toward larger diameters made me think that I'd have more/better tire choices as time goes on.

 

Your goals.
1. Fun "that's a given- just add gas and GO)
2. Evolution potential "that's a given if you have a big budget".

What are you going to use this MCS for? Street only/autocross/track/driving school events? This makes a difference.

What tires are you putting on those SSR 17" rims? This will make a big handling difference. Runflats are safe but very heavy and not the best for performance. If you want to stay with light weight then Toyo T1S, if you want best traction then Bridgestone potenza S-03 or Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3. You might consider 215/40-17 for the lower profile or go 225/45-17 and do some light trimming for the areas that may rub.

First thing on the list that I don't see is Driving School. If you have done this in your M3 for a number of years and had good results then that is good. If you have never done driving school before then it's a great experience and I highly recommend it- check with other MINI or BMW owners in your area.

CAI- several approaches. JCW kit is nice but expensive. Alta is loud and expensive- flashy looking. HAI is simple and works.

Pulley upgrade. Always think of pulley upgrades in relationship to which ECU software upgrade you want. Does the Unichip run well in any of it's versions with the 19% pulley or it's equivalent. Just ask Randy Webb if it does, then if so get that version. I don't think Unichip is tuned for 17 or 19% pulleys- you must custom tune it- while this is OK for those who really like to do that, it is more hassle than some of us care to do.

One solution- just talk to Randy and come up with a plan- maybe 15% pulley and Unichip or talk to Eric at Helix13 and 19% with larger injectors and GIAC for 19%, or even 15% and GIAC if you don't like the thought of going 19%.
(17% pulley and 2% larger crank pulley?- talk to Randy and Eric first)

JCW injectors are OK but expensive. Colder IK-22 plugs are fine.

Larger throttle body? I'd put that farther down on my list due to high cost and only a small gain. Same with the various exhaust headers.

Milltek cat-back exhaust- this is fine and could even be an early option.

What you really need is not all that much more power. Just a 19% pulley/smaller belt alone would work. Add any CAI and cat back exhaust and there would be ample wheel spin. ECU software smooths throttle response and adds some HP and torque.

Suspension- You'll need something better than stock. A rear adjustable swaybar should be an early mod to reduce understeer. If you don't mind a bumpy ride then lowering springs will help- H-sports are good for a 1" drop.
If you want adjustability and street driving smoothness then coil overs are good- an investment but they will handle so much better. Bilstein PSS9s are worth a look. If you want performance on the track or at autocross then front camber plates and rear lower adjustable control arms are required to dial in more negative front camber and enough rear camber for balance.

Brakes- since you have 17" SSR Comps you will have room for a BBK. You can keep the stock calipers and rotors and add better brake pads and brake fluid or bite the bullet and go with a BBK- this makes more sense if you drive on a track regularly or just like the looks and higher level of performance. meanwhile the stock brake pads are going to make everything dirty.

Still more miles to go before you sleep-
Lots more options for later.
Lightweight flywheel and racing clutch
Ported and polished heads with larger valves
Schrick Cam
Larger Intercooler: air to air or water to air
Short shifter and whalen ****
Aero body kit and custom paint

 

Daily Driver, street only.

Good question. I went with Goodyear F1 GS-D3's in 215/45/17 for performance and ride.


Another good observation. I've been instructing with BMW CCA for the past several years. You're so right that the first step is making the driver fast. This is the only sensible approach for a multitude of reasons.

JCW Intake is on the list as are the M7 AGS and Alta. As for ECU Software, I had assumed UNIchip was 19%-ready. If not GIAC is a great option I'm sure. I already have a call in to Randy on the Pulley/ECU questions.

JCW injectors appeal to me b/c they're a direct fit. The extra $80 is no big deal in the grand scheme of things.

I'm completely in agreement around the header being at the end of my list, since I'd like to remain somewhat inconspicuous. I guess I'm hoping the '05 exhaust is an improvement over prior years. Seen any comparisons?

As stated, handling and braking are also in the plan, just not the subject of this post. I'll pick your brains on that later. :smile:

With the exception of the Aero Kit (already installed), most of the rest is sort of unlikely. I'm not trying to build a no-holds-barred track beast. Just a nice little commuter car, if you know what I mean.

So... what I didn't hear you address is whether I could expect to hit my goals of comparable/favorable performance with JCW if I executed the plan as outlined... What do you think?

 

Daily driver- street only- OK this helps alot. I'd say that you don't really need more than about 220 HP. Twincharged would be overkill especially if you are in an urban setting with lots of bored police. When I hear "daily driver" I think "balance" and "streetable". In fact stealthy upgrades can be the dog's bollocks.

Goodyear GS-D3s are fine in that size- good choice for a street tire.

BMW CCA instructor? Good gads. And you're asking for advice?
Just kidding- you're the boss. You pick your poison.

JCW injectors- fine

Stock '05 MCS exhaust- nothing special, too heavy, get the Milltek exhaust

Exhaust headers- the Milltek header isn't loud when used with the Milltek cat back exhaust but for street use you don't really benefit.

To be comparable with JCW for the MCS you'll need-
A CAI
An aftermarket exhaust
15% pulley minimum or 17 to 19% with smaller belt for more gusto
Matching ECU to whatever pulley you choose
Larger fuel injectors if you choose 17% or 19% pulleys not with 15%
2% large crank pulley is your choice if matched with the right pulley.

I think you can meet all of your goals.

At our short track, several modded MCS with only 19% pulley, CAI and Milltek exhausts, lowering springs, and race rubber on 15" wheels can keep up with M3s consistently. While we lack sheer power we are able to gain ground in the turns and hold our own.

 

You made my day. Not surprisingly the majority of the unanswered quetions seem to be around matching the ECU to the boost level. That's what our cars are all about, right!

<begin rant>
Well, I'll go on record that sheer power is clearly a good thing. But if I can't have it all, being able to gain ground in the turns is where the fun is. A better handling car is a more plesurable car and a safer car. Many times it comes down to speed accessability and how much confidence the car inspires in the driver. <end rant>

 

I used to have a 320HP Audi A4 myself. (APR Stage 3, cams, frontmount, and custom tuning) Small world. And as far as SSR Comps, I had a set of 17's on my S2000 and loved them. Great wheels, light, and were surprisingly strong. They will be a great choice for the Mini. I think i'm going to get a set of Gram Light 57S's for my 05 MCS that should be here in a few weeks.

 

eMINI,

Yes, a solid match of reduction pulley size to correct ECU software is key. This ensures maximum smoothness and drivability in all situations- it gives you that JCW MCS type feeling.

GIAC has software to match 15%, 17% or 19%. Unichip has it's own maps for various mods and optimal pulley size- just check with Randy Webb to get the scoop on what is best if your case. Some owners like to do more adjustments (I guess it's fun) so the thought and expense of custom tuning their ECU software is appealing.

As for power on the roads-
I mentioned 220 HP as a general guide for "enough" power to help your MINI to do what you want it to do for street use. The MINI isn't that heavy and the speed limits aren't that high that having 50 more HP is going to get you somewhere much faster.

For power on the track-
Anything over 200 HP is going to help. The rest is physics and how best to use traction to help you deliver that power to the ground without squandering it. Wheelspin might look impressive but just means all that extra power is burning expensive rubber off your wheels. I never spin my wheels whether at the track or on the street. I get to the point of maximum traction just shy of spinning.

As for handling-
Once set up correctly, using a balanced and tuned suspension with ample/adequate power, the MINI is a joy to drive turns fast. Your performance envelop becomes larger; you are safer and in better control. On a short track that doesn't have long straights (favors power and high speed) but does have lots of turns, the MINI does just fine- in fact it's almost perfect.
With a long track (2 miles or more each lap with long straights) the power cars are going to pull away on the straight (the MINI will have to keep power/speed up high coming into the straight to hold on). The MINI is all about handling- for street use this is a usable feature useful in all situations.

Finally as we discuss your case (you're so lucky)- and for those that don't have the 05' MCS with manual transmission and LSD- having the 05' lower gearing and MINI LSD is a "major plus". The transmission is really helping you get the most out of the power you do have- even in stock form, so much so that the stock power is actually quite good for most owners- and on par with an 02-04' MCS with 15% pulley. To get similar results for the older MINIs you'll have to go a more expensive route such as adding the 05' MCS manual transmission, adding Quaife or do some heavy duty lightening of weight. (note this was all written on April 2nd so it can't be April fools!
)

 

Met some JCW stalwarts at the MINI store today. They may have made some inroads in helping me see the value of the Works package. I need to drive an '05 Works car and a modded '05 MCS to get a feel for the differences. That would help me make some decisions. Anybody had that opportunity yet?

It definitely seems like a crossroads:

What to do? Drive it like it is until more information is available. After all, it only has 1350 miles so far :smile:

 

I have direct experience with this as I've owned both a 05 JCW MCS and an aftermarket 05 MCS as well. Check out this thread where I compare the two:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...6&postcount=90

BTW, I wouldn't recommend doing just a 19% pulley on a new 05 without matching the ECU (and larger injectors). I did this to mine for a while and it about killed it. The car ran like crap until I added in the GIAC flash and the larger JCW injectors. I've seen lots of other reports of folks who ran the 19% with the stock ECU and injectors and it worked out great for them. I don't know if it's the latest ECU software version (I believe my car has v40) or what, but when I tried it, my car lost all of its low end power, had no throttle response whatsoever, and pinged like crazy. Once I installed the matching GIAC flash and larger JCW injectors, the car became buttery smooth again. It's an awesome drive now, although I'm still getting some pretty good pinging that I can't figure out.

Lastly, my LSD equipped 05 MCS is brand new just like yours is, so I assume that you will run into the same troubles as I had. My car was built on Jan 9th 2005.

 

But you only put 168 miles on the JCW car? If so, that's not a lot of data on the JCW, with all of it collected prior to break in.

 

No we actually put a lot more than that on it. The dealer gave us back the car a few times (over a few weeks) to try out their fixes (none of which worked BTW) and so we got to put quite a few miles on it then (more than break in milage anyway). Besides that, we knew that it wasn't going to be our car any more and so we didn't baby it one bit. The car was driven hard from 169 miles onward.

 

emini, I've had some fun with performance parts on my 03 mcs. I've also driven a friend's 03 with a complete jcw 210 package. I loved my friend's jcw equiped car, it is very very smooth. I let my friend drive my car and his impression was that my car drove as smooth and had more torque from lower rpm's than his. I very much like the jcw stuff and can afford it but decided to go the aftermarket route. I started conservative with a 15% pulley and an alta intake, that fixed the stumble and improoved driveability considerably. You have an 05 so are starting from a better place than us with earlier mcs models. The 05 gearing and your lighter wheels and tires already make your car very quick off the line. You have good acceleration already, you could play it conservative with a 15% pulley and the giac software. Add your cai of choice, a milltek catback and find yourself spanking ***. The 19% pulley, 380 injectors and giac would only add marginal gains compared to the 15%/giac setup, cost more and take the reliability a notch down. I've also considered an oversize throttle body but have been told to keep my money, not worth the expense. I've looked into an oversize intercooler too but I'm told that the stock unit gets the job done. Aftermarket coil & wires I'm also told to save the money and have read of some nam members here who had serious electrical problems after installing the stuff. If I was starting now with an 05, with the experience gained over the last 2 years I would keep it to lighter wheels/tires, milltek catback, jcw intake, 15% pulley and giac software. I have a feeling that would spank my current 03 setup, be reliable, cheap and more than plenty fun for a daily driver. That's my take and my 2 cnts., hope that helps and muchas congratulations on your new mcs. Good luck with it. Happy motoring to ya.

 

I'd be glad to take you for a spin in my 05 JCW. It's guaranteed (and warranteed) to please!

 

I do appreciate the kind offer. I will be looking to take you up on it in the coming weeks.

 

Thanks for the informed advice. With the limited mods you recommend, how do you think an '05 MCS would stack up against an '05 JCW? How about '02-'04 JCW's?

 

Emini, jcw customers are somtimes disapointed with their dyno results just like guys with lots of aftermarket work. I still think it's hard to argue with having the backing of the factory warranty and the fact that the jcw package runs so smooth. I don't think anybody can tell you what the outcome will be as to your car vs. some other car. There are many variables and there is a good chance the outcome of your mods will be different than another with the same mods. From your lines above, I understand you are building your car for street fun. That's why I decided to try an contribute to your thread, I'm no mcs expert but 2 years ago got started on the same path you are looking to take. There are people here who helped me decide how to go about it so I understand the importance of giving back to this comunity. My take is that you already have a great platform to start with in an 05, running very lightweight wheels and tires will make your car accelerate and handle much better. From here on you'll have to decide what dirrection to take, jcw or aftermarket right ? All I'm looking to do is contribute my experience, nothing else. You'll have to decide how far you're going to take this. The jcw route is a solid one for many reasons. The aftermarket route can be a bit tricky but you've come to a good place for advice. I think a big reason I'm so pleased with my car is that I've worked with a good tuner from the start and have not gone from one tuner to another. If you decide to go the aftermarket route, I would recomend working with a good tuner that'll get to know you and your car. Talk to the tuner and you'll get steered in the right direction.
I think that if you add a 15% pulley, giac software, alta or typhon intake and a milltek catback to your current setup you should be pretty close to a jcw kitted car give or take considering there are so many variables from one car to another. It would be cheaper than the jcw route and should be reliable. I'll venture off topic but if you have less than 7000 miles, geico insurance has mechanical coverage for $30.00 a year with a $500.00 deductible. That's my backup in case something goes very wrong with my motor and get denied warranty due to my mods. Thank god I haven't had to rely on it yet and hopefuly won't have to. Good luck with your project, enjoy.

 

Minibrute,


Your thoughts and experinces are very valuable to me. It may be some time before I do anythiing, But, I'll keep this thread handy for when the mods start.

 

One of your criteria is to experience the car's progress over time.

I think by now you recognize that going the JCW route still provides this benefit, since slapping on the Works kit isn't the end of the line, but rather the beginning.

I'm already scheming about the next steps: Aero kit, Wheels, Brakes, Suspension...

You just need to decide if initial COST is that big a factor in your decision.

 

It's a journey! And not one I'm going to rush through. I expect to own this car for several years. Heck, it's a blast just like it is today with only lightweight wheels.

So, I battle with myself all the time about what to do and when. One thing is for sure, I'll measure twice and cut once.