We recently encountered a SEROIUS saftey problem with aftermarket pads, specifically Porterfield's. Here's the story..... We sold a set of pads to a customer after purchasing them from Porterfield who had them in stock. Our customer installed the pads, stainless brake lines, and slotted rotors, and bled the brakes. On his first test drive through the neighborhood the pedal felt spongy but coming to a stop at slow speeds wasn't a huge problem. After returning home he figured that he must have had an air bubble in the lines. He then proceeded to bleed the lines once more. No visible bubbles came out. Perplexed he decided to take the car to the dealer who fortunatly is close by. While on that drive he had to make a quick stop at a higher speed in traffic. The brake pedal went all the way to the floor and the car barely slowed forcing him to take evasive action. Off the side of the road in the dirt he went. Luckily there was no damage to anyone except for his witts! He limped it a couple more miles to the dealer where it spent a week. Here's where it gets really interesting.

The dealer looks at the car and thinks, probably not the goodridge stainless steel brake lines, no fluid loss visible. Probably not the rotors, and probably not the pads. So work began with bleeding the system once again at the dealer. After bleeding the problem still persisted. They changed the abs unit, master cylinder and more and still the same problem. Baffled and left with no other option thay decided to start putting it back to stock. First thing the did was the pads. Low and behold the problem was solved? This had everyone baffled, how could it be the pad?

Upon examining the pad they noticed that only 25% of the pad was making contact with the rotor. Why was the question.


During this whole fiasco we were working with Carbotech to make brake pads for us. Right after this event they called me to inform me that they would not be making pads for a while because they couldn't source the safety clip for the back of the pad. Apparently they did their homework and dicsovered that the clip holds the pad in alignment so that full contact can be made with the rotor at all times. Without this clip the pad can shift and not make full contact with the rotor. Apparently the OEM told this to Carbotech and advised them never to run without these clips. Too much liability. So they did the right thing and are waiting for clips before producing pads.


Luckily there were no injuries or damages in this event. Whats shocking is Porterfields responce to this incident. They basically told us that we had purchased prototype pads? That was NEVER stated to us and we would NEVER put prototype product on a customers car. They also flatly denied that their pads were the problem. Strange, after we put them back to stock the braking was normal again. Thay also said that they would not help us out with the $700 bill that the dealer charged us to determine the problem. Thanks to the Portland dealer for not sticking us with the whole bill. Also Porterfield stated that somewhere in the fine print on my reciept it states that they are never responsible for anything.

Bottom line is stay away from pads with no clips from whoever! And definetly don't purchase from Porterfield as they don't stand behind their product whatsoever and do false advertising.


Good luck mates!

 

That is incredible.

Porterfield's alleged reaction to this is frankly stunning. How any company when confronted with such an obvious safety problem could react that way is truly worrisome.

Thanks for coming forward with this accounting of the situation. I would certainly hope that someone at Porterfield could explain why this isn't a concern.

 

What's disgusting is Portfield's reaction.

What's truly admirable is how you handled this for your customer.

R

 

Get that part about them selling you "Prototype" pads in writing, and get that piece of paper to an attorney! I can't imagine any sale of prototype anything with something so important.

That also sucks that all that work had to be done to the car, when all along it was the pads!

 

George,

Again, masterfully handled by your excellent customer service. Turly amazing that a company such as Porterfield would disregard any obvious responsibility! Have you heard anything from EBC?

Randy
randy@mini-motorsport.com

 

I feel obligated to come to the defense of Porterfield. I installed a set of their R4-S compound pads in my MCS. I attended a BMW Club sponsored driver's school at Road America. The pads performed perfectly with no fade. They stopped steady and predictably. I put on over 250 track miles during the event. The pedal pressure, although having a softer feel than the stock pads, never gave me a lack of confidence in the braking power.

Did the party mentioned in this post properly bed in the new pads before reaching his conclusion?

 

I've got to echo that last reply. I've used Poterfield pads on four race weekends and a test day before changing the fronts prior to a 2 hour enduro. I've had not a moments problem with the pads, although I understand there will be an update for the centering clips. The photos show heat damage that we used to see in showroom stock whenwe had to run factory brake pads. Were the pads installed race pads or street pads? No street or autocross pad can withstand constant braking from high speeds several laps in a row. Our Civic SI would melt the pads and bend the backing plated around the caliphers in about 10 laps at Summit Point. Did the car have dust shields or anything like that installed.........? Most unusual......

 

We're interested in trying the EBC Green Stuff pads that Mini Mania and HMS Motorpsorts carry, and that have been highly rated by the European press... but we have had excellent luck with Performance Friction Carbon Metallic pads ( http://www.performancefriction.com/ ) on other cars we've had. May folks in the BMW world (from whence we came, pre-MINI) have had great experiences with PFCM pads on both street and race Bimmers (not the same pads of course! and woe unto you if you experiment like I did and have race pads put on your street car).

Anyone know of aftermarket pads besides Porterfield?

A BMW CCA instructor buddy has them on his M Roadster and swears by them, as do others I know... but this thread has made me leery of Porterfield. And I haven't heard any heard any feedback on EBC specfic to MINIs and the last time I spoke with someone at Performance Friction's corporate office they had no timetable for the development of a pad for the MINI (in other words, it's about like waiting for Bilstein shocks for your MINI... buy something else, enjoy it, wait for what you really want, then sell the original on eBay).

 

>>We're interested in trying the EBC Green Stuff pads that Mini Mania and HMS Motorpsorts carry, and that have been highly rated by the European press... but we have had excellent luck with Performance Friction Carbon Metallic pads ( http://www.performancefriction.com/ ) on other cars we've had. May folks in the BMW world (from whence we came, pre-MINI) have had great experiences with PFCM pads on both street and race Bimmers (not the same pads of course! and woe unto you if you experiment like I did and have race pads put on your street car).
>>
>>Anyone know of aftermarket pads besides Porterfield?
>>
>>A BMW CCA instructor buddy has them on his M Roadster and swears by them, as do others I know... but this thread has made me leery of Porterfield. And I haven't heard any heard any feedback on EBC specfic to MINIs and the last time I spoke with someone at Performance Friction's corporate office they had no timetable for the development of a pad for the MINI (in other words, it's about like waiting for Bilstein shocks for your MINI... buy something else, enjoy it, wait for what you really want, then sell the original on eBay).

I race a BMW M3 (89) with both BMWCCA and NASA on the west coast. I would not put anything that Porterfield makes on my race car. The R4S is terrible on the street and terrible on the track. I also did not hear anything great about the R4 compound from fellow racers.

I heard good and bad things about EBC greenstuff as well.

I would recommend Hawk HP+ or HPS for the street/autocross/driving school beginner except that Hawk does not make these for our cars yet. For racing, nothing but Hawk HT10 (and maybe Blues in the back) based on how much rear brake bias one wants.

Pagid also has several excellent compounds but again none for our cars, ditto for PF.

I am hoping that several large manufacturers will release pads for our cars this year. Otherwise, I am off to installing 4-piston fixed calipers front and rear especially since I can get any pad I want on them.

Your mileage may vary.

Bora

ps. Does anyone make a 4 piston kit for the rear of the car?

_________________
02 Cooper S
89 M3 JP Club Racer

 

It seems that currently the only good choice for a track pad is from Ferrodo. They have the DS2500 compound with is a sport/track compound and they have the DS3000 compound which is mainly for track use. The DS3000 is available only for the fronts. I have used the DS2500 front/rear and it is a decent setup but the fronts definitely need a more aggressive pad for heavy track use. So, I'll be testing the DS3000 front/ DS2500 rear combination on Monday the 23rd.

You couldn't pay me to use Porterfield or EBC pads on my cars (I use Pagid on my M3 and Boxster and they are excellent, but they still don't make a pad for the MINI...)

 

Sorry to hear that, thankfully no one was hurt...

 

>>It seems that currently the only good choice for a track pad is from Ferrodo. They have the DS2500 compound with is a sport/track compound and they have the DS3000 compound which is mainly for track use. The DS3000 is available only for the fronts. I have used the DS2500 front/rear and it is a decent setup but the fronts definitely need a more aggressive pad for heavy track use. So, I'll be testing the DS3000 front/ DS2500 rear combination on Monday the 23rd.
>>
>>You couldn't pay me to use Porterfield or EBC pads on my cars (I use Pagid on my M3 and Boxster and they are excellent, but they still don't make a pad for the MINI...)
>>
>>

same here, I will give ferodo ds2500s a try if I can't convince Hawk to make the HP+ available for us.

Who is the preferred vendor for the DS2500/

Thanks

Bora

 

I have the EBC greenstuff pads in front with Turner Motorsport rotors, they perform so well (and emit so little dust!) that I am replacing the rear pad with them as well.
Definitely more bite than stock.

Kevin

 

http://www.raceshopper.com and http://www.mini-motorsport.com carry them.

 

I too have been bitten by Porterfield on my STi. the pads were awful, and got worse. When I asked a porterfield rep about them when i was out at JGTC over a year ago I was blown off by them. Needless to say I was not too pleased about this. I then began to work with other brake companies and soon found that inconsistant products with poor support is normal operating procedure for Porterfield. In the end I can only encourage people to stay far far away from porterfield.

Now, for those of you who have had good luck with them. I'm glad. Really I am. I only hope that you never have an experience with them that was as poor as mine.