Ok, there is 1................. but I haven't seen it....yet

 

I first want to apologize if I "dissed" GIAC. The fact that there is a fault code in my car that needs to be cleared up is most likely seriously affecting the cars ability to perform correct with anybody's software. I had thought I made his clear but I'm sure that perhaps I led people astray. The car is at the dealers now getting the fault codes taken care of. The dealer is also going to flash the car with version 40. Eric at Helix is going to help facilitate a custom tune with the GIAC and my local GIAC dealer Euro-Tech. This will be done with a dyno and so the numbers will be made a matter of record by me as I will post them. The GIAC software has had NO chance to perform correctly because of the fault code (1237). What was difficult to understand was that the UNichip was performing OK with the fault codes. They are two different solutions to the same end,.... high performance. They are unique in their methodology and need to be respected as such. I feel I was a bit "over the top" with my opinions without a proper installation of GIAC. Stay tuned!

 

This is misinformation. E-gas uses pedal position delta combined with instantaneous position to determine throttle butterfly position. For example, if you quickly stab the throttle (let's say from idle to 50%, but over only a few milliseconds), it may interpret you to have "floored it" based on your ramp rate, and thus go to WOT. Subsequently, you could move the pedal towards WOT (let's say from 20% to 70%) very slowly, and the E-gas may interpret this as virtually no change in "driver intention" and only change the butterfly from 20% to 40%. Both instances are examples of poor mapping, in my opinion. In my Yo-Yo Chronicles, it was noted that the stock P.D. controller tends to be underdamped, such that it overreacts to your pedal inputs.

I'm only aware of two aftermarket ECU's that change part-throttle information: Powerchip and UNIchip. From SpiderX's complaints, either he's used to the "more peppy" part-throttle mapping of the UNIchip, or GIAC has mis-tuned the part-throttle mapping (which may not be wrong per se, just wrong on SpiderX's setup).

Let's not forget that ECU tuning is not "my method is better than yours", however it comes down to which product, mapping, and pricing works best for the customer. APEX'i, flash-based, UNIchip all have their pro's and con's. All can make power (and lose if it's tuned wrong!)

 

How does the Unichip change part-throttle behavior if it is unable to control the throttle? The Unichip has exactly two parameters that it modifies:

1) Corrupt the MAP sensor signal so that the ECU provides fueling corresponding to the "wrong" part of its lookup table.

2) Corrupt the crank position sensor signal so that the ECU inadvertently provides spark at the "wrong" time.

The ECU still maintains a direct connection to the throttle. The Unichip does not drive the throttle, injectors, or ignition.

 

I can't wait to read the outcome of spiderx's saga. I'm now running a 19% pulley with giac and 380 injectors. From a 15% and mth my initial reaction to the new setup was wow the giac software is amazing in terms of it's smoothnes but the power with the new parts didn't blow me away. After driving the car for some time I started to realize that the performance improvment is there and endeed worth it. The eagerness spiderx describes with the 15% vs the almost dull power delivery of the new 19% setup is decieving. The 19% setup delivers the torque down lower in the rpm range and goes nice and steady in a very smooth way taking away the explossivenes feeling of the 15% setup. I would compare this to the way my ducati 916 delivers power vs the way my yamaha r6 does. Both bikes put out the same hp, give or take 5 to 10 hp. The difference in torque is also about 10ftp. between the two. The yamaha engine makes power to 16500 rpm, the ducati quits making power at about 10500rpm. The yamaha engine explodes at about 11000rpm and pours out amazing steam, lots of fun and exciting. The ducati has a very linear and civilized power delivery never giving a true impression of how f$$$$ fast its going.
I'm very happy with the 19%, giac and 380 injector setup, it improoved driveability by putting more power down earlier and very smoothly. It's faster and delivers much better drivability than my previous 15%, mth setup. I hope you get the gremlins sorted spiderx, please let us know the outcome.

 

To rephrase Andy:

1) Optimized fuel mapping

2) Optmized ignition mapping

Well you contradict yourself on two of the three points. Whatever the method [you say "corrupt" like it's an inherent evil: illogical Andy], it controls when the spark happens, and how much fuel is delivered.

 

Were having fun now

I should hear from the dealer today. It will be interesteing to drive the car with all the mods and just the 40 software.

 

Again, the Unichip has no way of changing the throttle opening. Maybe I am misinterpreting your choice of advertising words.

What are the three points and on which two did I contradict myself? This is not the first time where you have tried to apply fancy words from a book of logic in replies to me, without explaining your point or making any sense at all. In English, how does the Unichip change the relationship between the gas pedal and the throttle?

If the ECU no longer knows actual conditions from its sensors, then that data has been corrupted, regardless of whether a Unichip did it, corroded connector, etc. Let's say you get a fault code with corresponding freeze frame data. Neither the code nor the data can be trusted if the signals do not reflect reality. As you found logging your MAP sensor through the Unichip, it has no bearing on what is really going on in the engine.

 

Update...I drove the car and the fault condition reappeared with version 40.

read my thread about the "dealer"

 

Well then Andy the GIAC software is corrupted too.. All of Todd's S4 kits at AWE must be corrupted... Oh then there's PES, EVOMS, VF Engineering... Because they all use larger than stock MAF housings to shift the signal down.. It's a pitty you weren't available to design their kits for them. Then they could have done it right..

 

Me thinks the word "corrupt" is being misapplied. I deal in professional audio. There is a signal which is the pure signal from the microphone/instrument. It in and of itself has issues but for illustration that signal is fed, in many instances to processors which do a myriad of things to it. That signal is fed to the power amp/speakers. That middle step is called processing and is common. There is no doubt that it changes the initial signal but it's goal is to enhance or sweeten the sound. The Unichip processes the signal to enhance not to corrupt. There is no doubt that this "process" can ruin the sound but that is not its goal. I'm too tired to tie up all the loose ends of my analogy (I could) so don't flame me. Just my opinion.

 

From a diagnostics standpoint, shifting signals up or down from reality is corrupting them. Sorry, but the ECU has no way of enforcing its safeguards, nor supplying accurate information about faults and running conditions to scan tools, if those signals don't reflect reality.

 

I'm with Andy on this one. While the term "corrupt" may sound harsh, what the Unichip or other piggyback ECU's are doing is manipulating the true, accurate sensor signal to fool the ECU into doing something that it wouldn't normally do under those conditions. In a Flash/Remap situation, the ECU is still reading accurate signals from the various sensors, and using that real data to index into a map or table. The Flash/Remap is adjusting the values in that table.

The important difference being (if it hasn't already been stated a few times here) is that the ECU also uses the values of the sensor to do other things, like enforce engine safeguards, etc. By affecting the absolute integrity of the sensor signals, you affect the ECU's ability to perform these other tasks.

I'm trying to think of a relevant analogy in the non-car space but I'm not coming up with anything right this second.

 

AWE, EVOMS, PES and VF are running currupted, non-safegaurded GIAC software per your definition. No apology needed

 

my guess is that Rye, in post 53, meant to distinguish closed loop from open loop by referring to the former as part-throttle, Aristotle notwithstanding.


Something bugs me.. During closed loop, the ECU is monitoring O2, MAP and throttle position and adjusting injector supply to meet some pre-determined formula. If you corrrrupt the injector supply signal with your piggy (leaning it out more, for example), won't the sensors simply report the demand hasn't been met and ask for more?

 

Closed loop tuning should only be for correcting fuel trim values, not tuning A/F.

 

I can't disagree........ but resolution and relevance come into play. Frankly, I don't really care. My car is a mess and I'm just trying to get rid of fault code 1237. After that I will concern my self with software/firmware. I truly thank you for all you input. If you have time read my " Frankenstien car"

 

I'm not sure you understand so I'll try to explain it differently. GIAC software is a rewrite of how data from the sensors is handled, not a modification of those sensor values. It doesnt trick the ECU into thinking conditions exist that warrant more fuel or timing. Diagnostics are still possible on a car equiped with GIAC. On UNICHIP they are not.

Analogy: Painting the emerald city green is the GIAC and wearing the emerald colored glasses is the UNICHIP. Either way you end up with an Emerald City but only one is "real".


--
Toto

 

Based on comments from some folks on this forum, I installed the GIAC software for the 19% pulley and 380cc injectors. Previously I had the MTH upgrade, allegedly for that combination, plus the many other mods on my car. With the MTH, the car ran really well, but I was concerned about comments that the upgrade was not based on actual modifications, i.e., dyno tune, etc.

Well, after the installation of the GIAC, the car ran very poorly at the low end. Mid-to-upper range response was quite nice, and subjectively, similar to the MTH. The MTH did give a very dramatic response at the low end. At the time the GIAC software was installed, I indicated that my car had a whole host of additional mods. It was suggested by GIAC that my car would have to be "fine tuned", because the GIAC software for the 19% pulley and 380cc injectors was not written for a car with the additional mods that I have, and as indicated below.

Today I was told by folks at GIAC that they would not be doing the tuning on my car, and that they would gladly refund my money. This is indeed quite disappointing because I was hoping to have software that would work with the panoply of modifications that I have. Based on observations in California, I think there are many other people with extensively modified cars who also would like better software.

My mods: Pipercross Viper CAI, 66-to-62 mm TB, 19% Alta pulley, port-matched intake manifold, ported/polished Eaton-type supercharger, ported/polished head, Schrick camshaft (264), NGK IX plugs, CompTech/Mania header with OBDII catalytic converter, Miltek cat-back.

Bottom line: If you have a modified supercharger, head work, and a performance camshaft, along with a 19% pulley and larger injectors, the GIAC software will not be the ticket. I'll probably go back to the MTH, with its theoretical problems or ask Evotech (my original software mod) if they have done anything for the 19% pulley. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

Bob... welcome to my world


I talked at length with GIAC and they want nothing to do with highly modded cars.... sigh****

so much for being a "tuner"

 

After reading the more recent postings here, if you have HEADWORK and/or cams, I would agree 100%. It's been shown that even the JCW ECU will detune a normal pulley, intake and exhaust setup and an ECU set for those mods will detune a JCW. The main difference with the JCW is the headwork (NOT the supercharger coating ).

That said, I'm glad I stopped at 19%, intake and exhaust before the ECU because the GIAC ECU/Injectors couldn't be better with my mods.

 

Man is that great to hear. What a validation to know I am not the only one. That is my experience to a 'T". They offered me my money back today as well. Makes you want to go HMMMMMMM!

I just want my car to run well. I sent my Unichip to Randy to re map for the head/header/380s/19%/TB. The rest of the mods were on the car. I am happy to take the 19% off and go back to 15% no problem. I sent a message to Eric that I would still like to work with him but based on your message which mirrors mine I don't think they want to bother. I was told that GIAC was doing a Bently and routinely does twin turbo Porsches. I'm sure they can get it right but I don't think the motivation, read $, is there for them to want to bother with "Frankenstien cars". I can't blame them but I was also told that the GIAC had adaptive logic that would handle my mods. ARGHHHHHHHH. It is all very frustrating. I know I am not making friends here but WTF?

 

In a previous post, I mentioned that I had about 600 miles on my GIAC'd car, without any "adaptation". This past weekend saw an additional 600+ miles, and still no improvement. There's no question that GIAC can do the software that a number of us would like; however, our number just isn't cost-effective (profitable) for the company. If Evotech can't upgrade or reflash my original setup; then the MTH is looking more and more attractive, even though Franz may only be sitting at his computer! At this point, he has delivered a software upgrade that does work quite well with my mods.

Many thanks for all the informative comments; I just wish those of us who live in "modded-ville" had more ECU options

 

Bob,

so how does the GRS intercooler work? It sure looks nice

 

The GRSmotorsport intercooler is a beautiful piece of work. Even though I have a single channel IAT gauge, I plan to do some data logging before drawing any conclusions. I suspect its greatest value will be at higher and sustained speeds. You reminded me that I should add the new IC to my list of mods