Ok, straight up, which is the best chip out there? When deciding, factor in price, ease of install, ease of tuning, ease of re-tuning for new mods or if your dealership puts you back to stock, and performance gain.

My Cooper S isn't in yet, but I already have double-platinum spark plugs, intake, and 17% reduction pulley waiting for it. By the time it gets here I want to also have an ECU and an exhaust. I was going to get a Shark Injector because of how easy it is to go from stock to performance and back. But then I have been here some bad things about the Shark unit. People seem to like the MTH system because of the performace and price. But they seem like they are difficult to install and re-tune often for new mods. And then there are the Unichip, Superchip, and so on. The list goes on forever. Which is the best- straight up and why?

 

I went with Dinan for the dealership Love so to speak. I have piper cross cold air and jimmy sanoma cover with modified cowl induction(cut out back side of stock partition with razor knike heated with heat gun to mimic dinan flap) Fact is Dinan and JCW are not true cowl induction units.Also have one ball or left nut exhaust(resonator removed) Which would mimic Dinan S3 software recomandations also have 15% pulley added after the fact. Which now Dinan has come out with a 15% pulley they are up to S5 software. !5% pulley,throttle body,Exhaust and cowl induction air. Dinan software you can install as your upgrades warrant and just have to pay the differance between them as you up grade. The only thing Im missing is the throttle body.I may up grade to S5 and add the Tbody later. I added the Dinan after the cold air and before the exhaust mod still had a noticable differance and dealer love.And if the dealer requires an upgrade as in the recall. the Dinan reinstall is free.

S1- no mods,S2- cold air,S3 cold air ,exhaust,S4- cold air ,exhaust,Throttle body.S5-cold air ,exhaust,Throttle body.15% pulley

 

That's cool. Anybody else have something to say about any of the ECU's? I am still leaning towards the Shark Unit unless I can be convinced otherwise.

 

MTH... best bang-for-the-buck.

 

We need a shoot-out. One car, one dyno, one day, several different flashes.

 

That mini owners are willing to spend so much money on "canned" tunes continues to amaze me. Since when is the "quick fix" the correct one?

I suppose I'm spoiled by other markets, but what I want to see is a fully user-programmable option. I want control of my own timing, fuel by rpm/load, etc - all with an acceptable resolution.

The desire of vendors to keep the knowlege proprietary is short-sighted. The desire to piggy-back and tune via signal manipulation is also short-sighted. When is someone going to step up and offer proper functionality in their product?

 

I am a big fan of the Unichip. I have used all of the available software solutions.
Here are the reasons:

Availability of multiple maps (A, B and stock if the unit is removed)
Capability of running drivers (something we are working on implementing for the MINI in other applications)
Density of the mapping
Ignition and A/F control (as opposed to the Apex)
Development of 15 different specific maps depending on modifications
Cannot be overwritten by Dealer flashes
Can be completely removed within minutes by the customer
Custom tuning is available

Here are some dyno plots:

Car without pulley (Milltek and Alta intake)


Car with pulley (Alta intake, Alta intercooler, Milltek header, Milltek cat-back)


Car with JCW kit (Milltek header)



Jeff,

Because of the capability of the Unichip, and the associated software to interface, a customer programmable solution isn't an option. It takes a load bearing dyno to tune the Unichip - and a wide band O2 sensor. The capabilities are there to completely trash the car, and I warranty all of my products.

I'd be happy to do a shoot-out once I get the dyno up and running in my own shop!

Randy

 

Any real dynos?

 

Yep, every one of them. They were all done on a Dastek dyno in Portland, OR.


Here is the set up:








Hope that helps!
Randy

 

My point exactly. It sounds like the capability is there, you are just choosing not to offer it to the customer. You know, there ARE customers who don't need to be protected from themselves.

I have a very good relationship with my local Dynapack operator - and even own my own wideband (so do they of course). I'm not doubting your ability to tune your car on your dyno. What I want is the ability to do the same thing myself.

Overall, I fail to see the business reasoning behind not making the software available. The only option I could see is if your "licensed tuners" are paying you a very high premium. I believe you'd find, however, that the income you would receive by selling the software to the end-user would make up for any lossed incurred. Additionally, there are also people like myself who will not buy any solution from you without the ability to self tune.

 

I understand, but it is not my policy. I see both sides, and the equipment necessary to tune isn't just the software, it is the tuning pots and training. To do the Unichip tuning, Unichip USA trains each tuner in Portland for tens of hours. They don't charge for this training, so it isn't a money maker, they just want the tuning to be representative of the product. I don't doubt your ability at all!


Hope that helps!
Randy

 

After doing some research, maybe you're saying that the Unichip tuning feature is actually a built-in function of the Dastek dyno? Or perhaps a licensed feature of it.

In either case, I'd understand why you couldn't make it available to the public. That doesn't make me any happier about it though.

[edit] nevermind... you've already replied. I'll guess I'll keep looking.

 

You can tune the Unihcip on any load bearing dyno.

Randy

 

Jeff - sounds like you're looking for a whole new ECU that's fully tunable beyond the adjustable ignition, fuel, and e-gas maps that the UNIchip offers. How about the AEM EMS? Don't expect it to be in the same price range as the UNIchip though! Oh and it's not available for the MINI

 

So to re-tune the unichip whenever i get new mods I have to do a whole dyno tuning sesion? that could be costly after a while...

 

But isn't it a pain to install and re-tune often? How exactly does that system work?

 

No - that's why Randy has developed a program of UNIchip maps with a variety of modifications. If you want to go askew from those mods, then you're already willing to spend the extra money.

 

Surely, you know enough about chassis dynos to know that using "coast-down" measurements to extrapolate crank horsepower is nonsense. Coast-down driveline loss calculations are a great unspoken lie among European dyno shops (and with Dastek, apparently). None of them has the ***** to admit they are bogus. Find me ANY engineering book anywhere that shows how to get crank power from wheel power using coast-down measurements. There are none, because such a calculation is not possible. The amount of power being absorbed by the driveline and dyno rollers during a coastdown is NOT the same as the amount of power absorbed by the driveline during acceleration.

Wheel horsepower is the amount of power being transmitted from the tires to the rollers, or to the road. This power is significantly lower than crank horsepower (at the output shaft of the engine) due to several factors including:

clutch slippage
gears intermeshing at the input shaft to the transmission
gears intermeshing between gears in the transmission
drag induced by transmission fluid
gears intermeshing at the output shaft to the transmission
gears intermeshing inside the differential
gears intermeshing between the differential and half-shaft
gears intermeshing at the CV joints
Wheel bearing drag
tire deformation
tire slippage

Many of these factors behave very differently during a coast-down and some aren't applicable at all. There is no way to accurately measure crank horsepower with a chassis dyno. Period.

 

Anybody care to weigh in on AmD One-Click? It's priced between the Shark and Unichip, sounds easier to use than the Shark (i.e. no battery charger hook-up required), and is easy to switch between stock and custom mapping.

 

That sounds pretty good if it gives some good gains. AmD claims 8bhp, which isn't bad for just an ECU. Does the AmD get rid of the top speed govorner and raise the rev limiter like most others do? If it does, this might be the way to go.

Like I said in the origional post- base your favorite off of PRICE, EASE OF INSTALL, PERFORMANCE GAIN, AND EASE OF RE-TUNING FOR NEW MODS. That is what the average consumer looks for in a product like this.

 

Andy got a question for you. While those dyno's might not show how much actual HP the car has. Does it not show that there are decent gains (I am assuming the blue is without and red is with the unichip) from installing it?

So for the top graph (Car without pulley (Milltek and Alta intake)) it looks like it is going from ~185 to ~205 which while maybe not completely accurate for hp, it does show a gain of about 11%. Would that 11% still not be accurate if you were actually starting at say 160, so you would have around 177 after the install?

 

No, that's not accurate. You start out with a specific map for YOUR car in whatever state of tune it is in - at THAT moment in time.

If in the future you were to make modifications and you want to re-tune for said mods - then YES you have to go to a tuner with a dyno. This is no different than any other chip or program - except that some don't offer custom programing options.

The difference, and (I think) the point being made by RandyBMC is that you CAN go to a Uni-chip anointed tuner & re-tune for any mods your future might hold.

Nothing's perfect, and at this point seems to me that Uni-chip offers a lot of options.

FYI
I don't have a Uni-chip, nor am I endorsing it.

 

Well, nowhere on those graphs are posted the "driveline loss" figure that is being added to the actual figures. I wouldn't trust those plots to determine either the absolute difference or percentage difference between stock and Unichipped.

 

You also gotta factor in the fact that the UNIchip runs between 7 and 8 hundred bux. And it's like 40 bucks to have it retuned or something like that. That is a lot of cash.

Anybody have any comments about the AmD unit?

 

Hey, I didn't say it was the best bang for the buck/value.

The only bang for the buck option I know of is MTH. ...And although you can get updates for your mods they won't be based on YOUR car + mods.

Regardless of who makes or sells the products involved any REAL tune will involve dyno runs, metering of A/F (via wideband meter), monitoring of coolant & intake temps & possibly EGT's - to attain repeatable & meaningful numbers.

Anything less is a 'canned' product - optimized for the average tuned MCS - not yours.