makes sense, but I don't think there are equivalent end-of-tank conditions in a fin and tube style layout

 

I'll throw a few cents in here too, if only in theory since I have no experience with the RMS unit.

From what I can tell, this is single pass, cross flow unit. The way the coolant flows through the unit (perpendicular to the air flow), the air closest to the inlet will be cooled significantly more than that near the exit. The temperature gradient across the unit will be unpredictable and the outlets air temps will be non uniform as well.... in theory.

That said, if you (vendor/consumer/whatever) are happy with the RMS unit's performance, then you accept these compromises.

 

if the two cells are independent, an interesting test for Randy would be to hook them up so the water flow is in series, rather than in parallel, with the coldest water entering the cell closest to the manifold, and then in the reverse order, comparing results.

 

Cheese,

I'm far from an expert, but, the temp gradient you write about exists in all intercoolers - if I undersatnd what you have written??? Did I? The inlet side of an IC, to my way of thinking, will always be hotter than the outlet side. If what you are saying, and I'm chatting as a way of rationaizing myself, is the coldest air is hitting the hottest portion of the IC first. I would think that these two extremes would be beneficial since the extremes create the potential for faster heat transfer - boiling hot water in an ice cube tray will lose heat considerably faster than lets say water at 100 degrees F. I understand each will actually reach a frozen state at the same time. Or, did I completely misunderstand what you wrote

Ooops! Started writing this before jlm's reply. I think the answer is in his reply???

 

there are two gradients at right angles:

the combustion air gets cooler left to right. and the water gets hotter front to back (assuming the water supply side is front. )

 

I thought I heard someone say.... END OF STORY so why are we still discussing this?

 

No El, not end of story, we were asked to stay on story (topic). This thread was all over the place. Ssssh! I'm learning something here

 

One is from the front the other from the back.

Alex

 

What jlm is saying is that the air is getting cooler as it travels down the length, and the water is getting warmer as it travel across the width.

 

Yes, there is benefit to the coldest water acting on the hottest air. But in this application, its not uniform across the hottest air. Its uniform across the front or bottom of the intercooler so the air that takes the lower path gets the majority of the cool coolant. The air on the top always sees warmer temp coolant. So what gets spit out isnt homogenous or efficient.

Maybe having one inlet and one outlet per side would lessen these less than optimal gradients. I think the pic in AlexN's post is showing this (red/blue markers)

 

Okay, got it. Gradients are inconsistent...disorganized.

 

Looks like very nice end tank casting though.

 

Hey Cheese,

Convection can be a great way of removing heat. Argon is typically used in low e windows, for example, to prevent rapid convection and therefore heat transfer. Now, I know 'things' are moving quickly thru an IC, but it is a heat sink nonetheless. Is convection at work here, and, is it beneficial to the outcome?

 

oops! there are three perpendicular gradients: the top is hotter than the bottom, front hotter than the rear and left hotter than the right...except that the water flow is reversed ls compared to rs, right?

 

Yessir! Its all about forced convection. Think hot water heat / radiator in your home. Same idea here.

 

AaaaaaaHHHHHHHHa! Great big light bulb...way to big for here. Thanks.

I drove my professors absolutely crazy in college. Hard to tell, huh?

 

Edited by DiD: not on topic

 

Regardless of the theory discussion, it does look really nice. Especially the silver one shown above. I will be interested in the numbers when they come out.

 

I just wanted to chime in to let you guys know that this thread has made me sick. I am disgusted by the behavior of some people on this forum. I am amazed that all of you are adults...

Anyways..

Many people seem to be unable to grasp certain ideas:

1) Randy is only giving you the numbers that RMS has given him. He has not be able to do testing himself stateside and once he is able to, he release all the numbers you guys are asking for.

2) The splitload/dual mass concept does work in practice. It is very common among computer enthusiasts to help them cool down the hottest components of their systems.

3) Peter (M7) made a comment in regards to copies and rehashes. I believe he was referring to things such as Air intakes in which every vendor has practically the same product with relatively the same performance. Randy is a pioneer in the MINI realm and we need to be excited and supportive instead of bashing and hammering him like many have. Wait until he actually releases the product to bash him.

Randy, I am very excited about your future developments and watch them closely. I hope that one day I will be able to afford a solution as the one you are on the verge of offering. Thank you to all the hard working vendors and manufacturers, I appreciate what you are doing for this community. And I also appreciate those who keep these guys on there toes, however, I wish you guys would tone it down every once and awhile.

 

He was touting HP claims , anytime you do that around here you better be able to back it up or expect people to question you.

Just curious how you call buying a manufacturer's kit and reselling it and calling it pioneering? Thanks in advance!

 

In the States, he will be one of the first to have a Twinscrew kit. He isn't just taking the kit straight from RMS and selling it, he is adding his own work to it as well.

Randy is working with various companies (M7, RMS) to create new and exciting products for the Mini. Even if he is merely selling a kit that someone else has created, he does extensive and exhaustive tests before selling the product. Webb and M7 are very unique companies and I trust them and what they say much more than any other Mini Vendors.

Maybe I am young and niave, I dont know. But I don't spend my money on my car unless I know I am getting the best product for my money, and You, Andy, JLM, Randy, Peter, etc help me to do that. Thank you all your guys work, I just wish you guys could be a little friendlier and more understanding.

 

Just so YOU understand where I am coming from.... I spent 15k with M7... so don't think I have it out for them. I just want REAL testing and numbers not a lot of promises......

 

So Peter provided you with REAL testing data and REAL numbers before you bought products from him?

 

Good point! I would like to know as well...

 

I think I can answer that, and the answer is NO. This is why El is so adamant about vendors providing accurate data to their customers or potential customers. I also agree with this. When a vendor claims that a product will produce a specific amount of anything, then they should be able to provide data as to how they came up with that amount.
Now I don't mean to be speaking for EL, but I am sure he will agree.

Dave