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Rebuilt engine with metal shavings (swarf)

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Old 03-26-2019, 11:39 AM
knt
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Rebuilt engine with metal shavings (swarf)

Hi,

Has anyone experience a fully rebuilt engine with metal swarf in the engine, in particular in the oil galley and turbo feed port?

I've read on some forums, where people says it alright to run engine with metal swarf, whilst other people say there shouldn't be any on a newly rebuilt engine and shouldn't be run.

Thanks for any feedback.
 
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Old 03-26-2019, 11:47 AM
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Rule number one when rebuilding an engine is to make sure everything is clean when being reassembled. I wouldn't want any of that stuff in my engine...
 
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Old 03-26-2019, 12:35 PM
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Thanks.

Yeah, bad workmanship by the looks of it.
 
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Old 03-26-2019, 12:36 PM
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Metal shavings in a motor is never good.
 
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Old 03-26-2019, 01:05 PM
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When I was getting my R52 JCW car up and running, I found metal shavings in the pools of oil on top of the head.....I decided right then that this motor was having problems.....so I found another JCW engine and the one with metal shavings is sitting in the corner of my garage......

Bryan
 
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Old 03-26-2019, 01:42 PM
knt
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Originally Posted by MCS02 View Post
Metal shavings in a motor is never good.
Yeah, that's what the mechanic said.

But on some forums people said they've been fine running a new rebuilt engine with metal swarf within the running in period and changing oil a few times.
 
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Old 03-26-2019, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by A383Wing View Post
When I was getting my R52 JCW car up and running, I found metal shavings in the pools of oil on top of the head.....I decided right then that this motor was having problems.....so I found another JCW engine and the one with metal shavings is sitting in the corner of my garage......

Bryan
Was that with a newly rebuilt engine or just one about to go?
 
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Old 03-26-2019, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by knt View Post
Was that with a newly rebuilt engine or just one about to go?
Not sure......I got the '06 R52 JCW real cheap, (see my thread in the JCW section).......after I finally got the engine that was in the car to finally run....it ran real good, except had lots of valve train lash and noise.....I took off the valve cover and discovered metal shavings in the pooled oil on top of the head.....I put a little magnet close to the oil and the shavings jumped right out of the oil to the magnet......I decided right then I was not going to use this engine in the car. It looks like "maybe" the cylinder head was rebuilt, because it's so clean inside & out.....but I was not going to take a chance with it.

I still have not opened up the engine that I took out of the car to see where the shavings came from......been a little busy with other things here

Bryan (read my thread in the Gen I JCW section, it's kinda long)
 
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Old 03-27-2019, 03:26 AM
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Originally Posted by A383Wing View Post
Not sure......I got the '06 R52 JCW real cheap, (see my thread in the JCW section).......after I finally got the engine that was in the car to finally run....it ran real good, except had lots of valve train lash and noise.....I took off the valve cover and discovered metal shavings in the pooled oil on top of the head.....I put a little magnet close to the oil and the shavings jumped right out of the oil to the magnet......I decided right then I was not going to use this engine in the car. It looks like "maybe" the cylinder head was rebuilt, because it's so clean inside & out.....but I was not going to take a chance with it.

I still have not opened up the engine that I took out of the car to see where the shavings came from......been a little busy with other things here

Bryan (read my thread in the Gen I JCW section, it's kinda long)
I'm hoping this is the best case scenario for me, as I would rather know the engine rebuilder actually did the work with the cylinder head instead of just delivering a junkyard engine.
 
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Old 03-27-2019, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by knt View Post
Hi,

Has anyone experience a fully rebuilt engine with metal swarf in the engine, in particular in the oil galley and turbo feed port?

I've read on some forums, where people says it alright to run engine with metal swarf, whilst other people say there shouldn't be any on a newly rebuilt engine and shouldn't be run.

Thanks for any feedback.
Never rebuilt a Mini engine but rebuilt a couple of other engines. Sent the bare block to be cleaned, and cylinders bored. Heads sent out for cleaning and to get a valve job.

Upon getting the block back all the freeze plugs were removed (removed at the engine machine shop) along with all of the oil galley plugs so the hot tanking (cast iron block) could flow through and remove any gunk.

I used a rifle cleaning kit to run something through every oil galley to ensure they were all free of any junk.

Except once. I cut a corner or overlooked it and after I got the engine assembed, a 318CI Dodge V8, a hydraulic lifter was noisy. Long story short I had to remove the front engine cover and an oil galley plug and found the old plug instead of being removed had been driven into the galley. Had I run a cleaning rod through this galley I would have found this and removed it. But as I didn't I didn't but I removed it this time and buttoned the engine up and all was well.

Before an engine is assembled, the engine should be carefully checked and cleaned. Every bolt hole, dowel hole, oil galley, etc., must be clean, blown clean. Do as I say not as I do.

Now even the best cleaned engine will shed some metal debris as it runs. But this is not the same as "swarf". Swarf is the metal chips/shavings produced by machining/grinding operation. This should all be removed before assembly.

It is a sign of sloppy work if any machining swarf is found in the engine.

The metal debris I'm talking about arises as the engine runs loose metal particles -- very small -- come loose and end up in the oil and oil filter. This is normal. If you take your hand and run it over any freshly machined surface it will come away with some metal particles. As a journeyman machinist I machined (and sometimes ground, or even honed and in a few cases lapped (I made optical flats) and even hand scraped some surfaces for a precise fit) all kinds of material: cast iron, various flavors of steel, aluminum, magnesium, copper, bronze, hard chrome, glass, paper, rubber, wood, fiberglass, lead, plastics of various types, everything but gold. And I experienced this with every surface I machined. Normal.

So if you are seeing any but just a piece or two of swarf that ain't good. But it may prove to be harmless. If you can see it then it isn't in the engine oil galley. It will end up in the oil sump/pan where if it is large where it will remain. If small enough it will get pulled into the oil pick up tube and crunched in the oil pump gears then caught in the filter where the next oil change it will be discarded. New/freshly built engines should receive one and better is several oil/filter services. For example, my 2018 JCW got an oil/filter service at around 600 miles, again at 2K miles, then at 5K miles and most recently at 10K miles. Come 15K miles it will get another.
 
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Old 03-28-2019, 03:23 AM
knt
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Originally Posted by RockC View Post
Never rebuilt a Mini engine but rebuilt a couple of other engines. Sent the bare block to be cleaned, and cylinders bored. Heads sent out for cleaning and to get a valve job.

Upon getting the block back all the freeze plugs were removed (removed at the engine machine shop) along with all of the oil galley plugs so the hot tanking (cast iron block) could flow through and remove any gunk.

I used a rifle cleaning kit to run something through every oil galley to ensure they were all free of any junk.

Except once. I cut a corner or overlooked it and after I got the engine assembed, a 318CI Dodge V8, a hydraulic lifter was noisy. Long story short I had to remove the front engine cover and an oil galley plug and found the old plug instead of being removed had been driven into the galley. Had I run a cleaning rod through this galley I would have found this and removed it. But as I didn't I didn't but I removed it this time and buttoned the engine up and all was well.

Before an engine is assembled, the engine should be carefully checked and cleaned. Every bolt hole, dowel hole, oil galley, etc., must be clean, blown clean. Do as I say not as I do.

Now even the best cleaned engine will shed some metal debris as it runs. But this is not the same as "swarf". Swarf is the metal chips/shavings produced by machining/grinding operation. This should all be removed before assembly.

It is a sign of sloppy work if any machining swarf is found in the engine.

The metal debris I'm talking about arises as the engine runs loose metal particles -- very small -- come loose and end up in the oil and oil filter. This is normal. If you take your hand and run it over any freshly machined surface it will come away with some metal particles. As a journeyman machinist I machined (and sometimes ground, or even honed and in a few cases lapped (I made optical flats) and even hand scraped some surfaces for a precise fit) all kinds of material: cast iron, various flavors of steel, aluminum, magnesium, copper, bronze, hard chrome, glass, paper, rubber, wood, fiberglass, lead, plastics of various types, everything but gold. And I experienced this with every surface I machined. Normal.

So if you are seeing any but just a piece or two of swarf that ain't good. But it may prove to be harmless. If you can see it then it isn't in the engine oil galley. It will end up in the oil sump/pan where if it is large where it will remain. If small enough it will get pulled into the oil pick up tube and crunched in the oil pump gears then caught in the filter where the next oil change it will be discarded. New/freshly built engines should receive one and better is several oil/filter services. For example, my 2018 JCW got an oil/filter service at around 600 miles, again at 2K miles, then at 5K miles and most recently at 10K miles. Come 15K miles it will get another.
Thanks, this was a very useful read.

How much would it cost to do the process of clean up you mentioned above properly?

I've no knowledge on engine work, that's why a opted to purchase a fully rebuilt forged engine.

When it got delivered the mechanic noticed it straightaway and informed me.

He also suspects the internals aren't new parts, as he borescoped the pistons and carbon can be seen.

I'm now in the process of chasing the company up, but as of yet no reply.
 
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