My favorite part about the internet....


the LOVE....


can you feel it?

 

[QUOTE=Ryephile]jlm was introducing a logical fallacy by implying Pilo's personally limited engine building experience had relevance with his partnerships with DPR and Arias III. [QUOTE]

I don't think anyone has any question that Pilo's experience has any effect on the quality of the component. I thought it was pretty clear that Pilo is the retailer of this product and that DPR is a qualified builder of pistons. I thought the concern was more on the advice that was given in regards to installation. Irrelevant Thesis is seeking to prove a conclusion not at issue. How is questioning someone's skill at performing a task, not relevant in questioning their advice. If I never performed a brain surgery, someone sure as heck to question me, advising a group of first year medical students on the intricacies performing brain surgery. I think his experience would be at the heart of the issue. I also fail to see how this is a personal attack. Again, there was no question as to his ability at working with a third party to develop a piston, or in his ability as a retailer. Both actions that Dan is performing. There was no attack on Dan for either selling these items, or providing an inferior product. None of this has been questioned. Just that some information was asked about his background, and from what perspective this advice was coming from. This is an extremely acceptable line of questioning. If I were getting work done by a mechanic or he was advising me on some work I should have done to me car, I would sure want to know his qualifications.

Half of the statements in this thread are related to the piston design and half are related to the installation of the piston. Both topics were raised or discussed by both the retailer (vendor) and the original poster of this thread. So I don't think any poster has started a discussion that wasn't in some part already opened by the vendor and original poster.

Andy wasn't presuming anything. I thought it was pretty clear before that both Nology and the Plasma Booster were made by the same guy. Ulf said in previous posts that he developed the Nology wires, and I think that it is quite clear that he developed the Plasma Booster. Ulf also mentioned some crossover technology and thinking between the two products.

I can't see why these two people are being raked over the coals from these statements in this thread, yet serious attacks gone on in other threads with no comments. No one is even calling anyone names.

 

Yep, you CAN just drop them in. Maybe you shouldn't, but you can

It surely must be obvious that if you don't know what you're doing changing pistons, the specs of the pistons are the very last of your worries, and that loose vocabulary not withstanding, changing pistons is pretty much the open heart surgury of car work.

To me, this looks like evolution of the aftermarket. Will these be "better", sure, for some. Will they be the best, who knows, depends on what else goes to market.

We'll see when the numbers post.....

Matt

 

I am not sure if these questions have been asked or answered on this thread yet.


Will Software be needed with this raised compression? I would think so.

Also how will these pistons fair with 91 octane (cali guys) and 93 octane (the rest of the country)?

 

all the research I have conducted leads me to believe the S shares the "same" fundamental parts and design as the Dodge SRT-4 engine. Its basically a smaller displacement SOHC version of dodges turbo engine. It uses the same cracked mahle forged rods, a similar cast iron block, forged crank and Mahle low compression AL 142 hypereutectic pistons with a hard anodized ring land and oil squirters. The factory spec SRT bottom end has been proven time and again to withstand 400+whp on pump gas at 24 psi and our shop car(street tire class) puts down over 500whp with boost levels of 30-31 psi on race gas.

 

We are going to test with and without. We want this to be a viable solution no matter how much you want to do to your car, as well as a swap incase of stock parts failure.

 

Piston Weight__________8.4 oz___8.9 oz___+0.5 oz

Pin Weight_____________3.3 oz___2.5 oz___-0.8 oz

Rings_________________0.7 oz___0.6 oz___-0.1 oz

 

Oh yea... I have them in.... trying to get nice photo's... I'm not the best at that.. Will get them as soon as possible though.

 

Cool, when will you be having them installed?

 

Waiting for some gaskets, and some Good honing equipment from DPR, but I hope to have done prior to Christmas.

 

Excellent! Looking forward to the results. :smile:

 

Dan -


Do are you going to drop them in from the top or pull the engine?

In looking around the web I am surprised just how many people do it this way.

In my youth I helped a friend do a ring and bearing job on his Healy 100-4. In those days the goal was to keep oil pressure up and smoke down as much as your wallet could handle, which wasn't much. The rings never seated properly but it kept running and besides, they all smoked.

With today's tolerances and emissions control a smoker is a non-starter. Given the risk of contamination with metal filings I would guess that an engine pull is the safer and better way to go.

 

They are going to be dropped in from the top, but I will be disasembling most of the engine and areas surounding. I could pull, and throw it on the engine stand, but hope to not need to. Will be a very extensive job, but should take approx 3 full days.

 

Many moons ago, I believe I read that the addition of nearly any weight to a piston, over its blueprinted/balanced state increases inertia exponentially in a reciprocating engine? And, was cause to counter-balance the crank to prevent bearing/journel or even crank failure. So, here's a challenge for Andy, our resident Mr Wizzard (or anyone for that matter)... will this .4oz reduction in piston weight have an adverse effect on crank balance... or enough to worry about counter-balancing? I'm thinking that a .4oz difference at rest represents many, many pounds difference at 6970 rpm...

 

Any results yet? Would you mind taking pics as you disassemble/reassemble the engine?

 

Due to personal reasons, I was unable to perform this during the week.

With that unfortionate shift in plans, and lack of consistant time, I will be rebuilding the pistons in a seperate Engine block, but will still be doing all the work my self.

Unfortionatly the engine is already disassembled, but I will be taking pictures of each step in the assembly of the engine from the block up!

 

Here's a candit shot of Dan just getting ready to pop those babies in from the top:

 

Pilo Choppers is a couple years away...

 

Here are some pictures of the pistons. We have had these pistons Coated by Calico for a more bullet proof setup. The coatings add on average 2% performance, so we will keep that in mind when finished with our project.

 

can't wait for the results... later on why don't you check the pressure of each cylinder?!

 

Testing the pressure of the piston is definatly in our game plan to verify that the piston seals are good, and see what type of pressure gain is to be seen my the slight increase in compression ratio that we did.

 

Could you elaborate on this performance improvement claim for the coatings please? Thanks.

 

Any HP claims that we make, because we will not be including the coatings in the cost listed above, will be reduced by 2-3% so as to make a fair assumption as to what will be gained by installing uncoated pistons.

Thanks
Dan
Pilo Racing

 

Wow -- that coating sounds real good! I wonder how long the coating will last before it wears off -- or will it ever wear off? Also, do you have plans to make pistons for the MC, as these appear to be just for the MCS? :smile:

 

I want to add my 2 cents on adding new pistons. I once replaced the pistons on two of my motorcycles back in the day (over 30 years ago). I replaced them with stock pistons and rings. My friends talked me into making the swap telling me they should run better. I did the work myself and was able to do it no problems, except I did not know how to set the ignition timing afterwards, so had to take them to the shop for that. Afterwards, both did not run quite as good as before. They did not run bad, just lacked that last bit of something that was there before. I don't know why, as I'm no expert. But with jlm's talk of needing a boring or honing of the cylinder walls, and Dan's acknowledgement that you do need the cylinder walls honed for this piston install, I'm thinking that since I did not do that for my motorcycles, that could be why they ran at 95% instead of 100%. So, I encourage anyone to do the cylinder wall honing that Dan is recommending with this piston install. Again, I'm no expert on all this, but that sounds logical (as Spock would say). :smile: