So thats a yes?

 

Yes, that was a yes... lol

 

Here is a preview shot of the pistons... Let me know if you have any questions...

 

what are you recommending for piston/bore fit?
piston alloy?
are the sizes available in oversize so one could bore and hone his block to get the piston/bore fit?

what is the piston to head surface distance (for the quench areas)?

compression ratio?

ring type and end gap spec?

 

The bore we are using is a stock bore. We have tightened up the tolerances though.

A custom oversived one is definalty possible if one wanted to bore the block.

The quench area is .030-32

The compression ratio is 8.5

The rings are from total seal (http://www.totalseal.com/)

We will finalize the ring clearences once I have them in my posession. but they will be slightly tighter then stock for the higher compression that we are running.

 

Pilo:

have you ever fitted a piston?

Given the advice you are handing out, I think you need to present some sort of personal background info in engine building

 

Have a fitted a piston... yes.

Though I am not an expert. The experts are those that are designing the pistons for us.

The Pistons are a combined effort of myself, Dan Paramore of DPR Racing, and Nick Arias III of Atomic Speedware.

To give you an idea of how qualitifed they are, Dan Paramore is currently in peurto rico giving lessons on engine thermal dynamics and engine principals to the race teams out there to help them better compete. Nick Arias has been designing pistons for many years and has made them for many race cars, and street cars.

I will be installing the pistons when I recieve them. Planned for this upcoming weekend. I will also be getting before and after dyno numbers of the pistons as well.

If you require more information on the people that I am involved with, and the caliber of the expertise, feel free to get in contact with them directly .

www.dprracing.com
www.atomicspeedware.com

Thanks for your interest into the expertise that has been put to use designing the parts that Pilo Racing Sells.

 

Dan you are missing the point. You are giving out advise on installation of products that you have no expertise it seems in. You are telling people they drop right in and making it seem like it's a saturday afternoon afair. When in reality to really build a motor that is going to to last you can't just drop in a new set of pistons. You really should have the cylinder bores cleaned up before you go popping in new pistons like JLM mentioned. This isn't a slight directed at you I'm just trying to clarify what some other have already mentioned.
Mike

 

I under stand that. I never claimed for this to be a how to thread like JLM wants this to seem. I am providing the information relevant to the design of the piston, and the expertise of those involved with this design. As I stated earlier. The install need to be done by one that has the nessicary knowledge needed to perform such a large task on their engine. The nessicary tools, and knowledge it essential to a properly running engine. Those types of comments would be better had in a how to of installing the pistons, then a thread that is in it's sole purpose to provide information on a product that is under custom production and development. Myself and those that I deal with are working to bring the highest quality products available to the mini market and when JLM comes in asking how to install a piston, it is off topic and is a remark that would have been better if I said this is a thread on how to install a piston. If JLM want to start that thread, that is fine.

 

I am confused still. I was planning to install the turbo kit. And now El Diablito Rojo-N20Mini is installing pistons also, but doesn't mention bore and hone the block,as Jlm mentions. Well what is the answer. Can I just drop the pistons in or do I need extensive machine work for them to fit?
I would like to have the best pistons with the extra boost that the turbo will provide.

 

It is required that you hone one the cylinder prior to installing the pistons so that you can get a proper ring seal. You do not need to rebore the cylinder for the piston install. You want to make sure that you use proper equipment when preforming this though. Like I said, this is not a technical thread, but one providing the information about the pistons. A Competant mechanic should be able to perform the install with out issue. We provide what is needed to do the install (gaskets need to be purchased seperatly)

 

In an earlier post, now only found as a quote, Pilo told us:
"
Originally Posted by MiniPilo
Install of pistons requires removal of cylinder head, and dropping the oil pan. then they will just drop right in."

Pilo posted this in #22:
"In all seriousness, There are 2 bolts that are on the rod that connects to the crank shaft that need removal, using a 10 mm ratchet, be careful not to scratch the bearings, or drop any parts. Then you can push the piston up and out. Remove the Pin from the existing piston, and replace with provided pin, and new piston.

Then install rings, and compress with ring compressor, and install into block while matching the exhaust side clover to the rear of the engine.

Rebolt the rod to the crank, and begin assembly."


I responded to his gambit.

his personal background in engine building seems relevant to me if he is offering this kind of advice.
How about describing what kind of engine, NA or boosted, 2 stroke or four you worked on? If you don't have that much hands-on experience, that's fine, but make it clear then that you are simply a parts developer/distributor.

 

what JLM recommends is the best way to do it... no doubt
I am in deep thought of doing a 2.0 liter instead..

 

Thanks for disclosing your piston information, Pilo. It is aimed at the professional engine builder that has the tools and know-how to do the installation correctly.

--->jlm, keep the focus on the product and its effectiveness. Flame throwing will not be tolerated.

 

I'll back off, but I didn't feel like my requests were out of line, especially bearing in mind the sequence of posts about installation.

as far as a 2L engine, about the only way to do it is to increase the stroke by about 5/8". the bores are too thin to overbore much. A spendy proposition

 

thanks... the BMW tech is supposed to let me know if the block is beefy enough to bore safely. Sounds like you already know. will keep you updated on what is going on....

 

jlm, who are you? Says your a vendor, but I have no idea who and want you do. Your homepage link is dead when I go to it.


Not sure just what your motivation is here . Your points are quite valid but I'm not sure your delivery method is wise. I am relitively new to this car and this forum, but from what I have seen Pilo is certainly an active promoter of performance parts for our Minis. I personally hold a high value to vendors like Pilo that are 'out there' pushing the limits and providing this kind of service to all of us here. Not sure who else is developing performance pistons for the MC/S
To all vendors here, please keep up the great work and keep us up to date on 'what's up'.

 

I don't think jlm comments are out of line. He wasn't attacking anyone I thought. The information in this thread is really serious business and not something that should either be attempted by a weekend mechanic, or someone without knowledge of the product. It is great that Dan is developing this, but I think jlm wants people to be careful about what there doing. Without really knowing what you are doing you can ruin your engine big time.

 

jlm was introducing a logical fallacy by implying Pilo's personally limited engine building experience had relevance with his partnerships with DPR and Arias III. In this case, Pilo is the retailer; his competence in engine building is not in question, however the performance of the new piston, is.

Of course installing new pistons isn't a light duty job! Anyone foolish enough to think it's a simple drop in job will pay the consequences.

 

Rye: second time I have seen you use the logical fallacy comment.


How do you respond to Pilo's statement about removing the head and pan and just dropping those pistons in? I consider this to be advising potential buyers about the ease of using his product and I think it is grossly misleading. You point out the product is aimed at the professional engine builder, so how do you take his instruction?. So I am questioning his authority? what is the fallacy? Now if he had said his mentors had said it, it might be a logical fallacy to connect Pilo's experience with his advice, but it was a statement with a followup made by Pilo.

the other instance was about the connection Andy made about the braintrust connection between the Plasma Booster and the Nology wires...can you explain what was fallacious about Andy's quote?

 

Re: Andy and the Nology comment:
*The Fallacies of Presumption: False Analogy

Re: jlm and Pilo "just drop in" comment:
*The Fallacies of Presumption: Irrelevant Thesis
*The Fallacies of Relevance: Personal Attack Fallacies: Genetic Fallacy, Abusive ad Hominem, Circumstantial ad Hominem

Source: With Good Reason, S. Morris Engel

 

What was presumed?

Why do you feel the need to use expressions like "logical fallacy" without explaining the context and your reasoning in the situation.

BTW, I agree that discussion of use and installation of these pistons is completely out of line in this thread. Who's to say these pistons will not be used as oversized gearshift *****?

 

That's odd. Ryphile just posted a response that say "Go buy the book". But apparently he deleted it.

Rather than me buying a book, how about explaining why you feel the way you feel?

 

no matter what engel might say, Rye, you have to put it in more perspective for me to get your drift.Pilo said the pistons just drop in; I asked what was his experience in piston fitting?

It doesn't bother you for Pilo to offer his install method, but it bothers you that I question his basis for making such a statement?

You are the one that implied I was flamethrowing; I think you read into it.

 

jlm,

That is a logically fallacious presumptive analogy.