I need some opinions. I was holding out for a January '05 model in order to get an LSD. I figured the price would probably not be too bad compared to having one installed. I then noticed on motoringfile that the price for January '05 builds was going up. Based on that, the LSD isn't looking so attractive in price.

I drive my car exclusively on the street, but enjoy driving it aggressively. I live pretty close to the Dragon's tail and the North Georgia mountains, so I enjoy riding it aggressively in this terrain as well. I currently do not autoX, but might do so in the future, although I do not have any immediate plans for it.

My question to you, is whether the LSD will be beneficial to me. I know how the units work and it's benefits in autoX, but what are the benefits, or would I even see the benefits for street and some mountain driving? Is it worth it?

Thanks.

 

If I had the choice of a factory LSD for anything under about $1500, I'd go for it. Think about accelerating out of tight corners, even on the street. I get wheelspin every day, and I wouldn't say my driving is a menace to society.

 

You also have to look at the loss you will make by either trading in or selling your car. If you add this the 05 will cost a lot more.....but then you will get a new car.


Alex

 

I have an 03 MCS with Quaife LSD and stock clutch and flywheel. Based on what you describe I would recommend the LSD in your new MCS. We don't know the price yet but roughly $1800 would be the value of it.

For street driving you will not notice it if you drive your MINI like a family van or station wagon. But if you take corners hard and accelerate briskly on curvy roads then you will appreciate having the LSD. Since the new MCS has a bit more power and better lower gearing I would say that makes the LSD even more attractive.

I addition, on wet /slick surfaces and with loose road debris your traction will be better with LSD. Think of it as a passive mechanical DSC.

If you upgrade the tires to stick non runflats or upgrade the suspension and improve alignment for more negative camber the LSD will work even better.

Since you can order the LSD from the factory you get the full four year warranty and you can add the cost of it into the payments of the car loan over time- these are great advantages over an aftermarket LSD.

Only drawback is I don't know how the stock LSD compares with the Quaife LSD in terms of durability and performance. The Quaife is pretty tough.

 

Does the LSD take away any hp in the drivetrain? I am also curious on whether the stock is as good as the Quaife. Maybe it is the Quaife, which would be great also.

 

Let's not forget there are base price increases not including the LSD. There is a min increase on the S of >$500. So figure even IF the option was only $800 (since I doubt MINI will use a quaife because BMW tends to like clutch packs & torsens), it would be $1300+ versus ordering earlier and adding a LSD later.

Since you can, even in So Cal, get the LSD installed for $300-450, and a quaife for $1k, then you are talking a tossup if you get a stripped MCS with a $800 factory LSD.

My guess is that the LSD option won't be as expensive as aftermarket ones because it is installed at the factory, MINI buys in bulk, and they save the cost of the open diff.

A little more on point when I first test drove the MCS, without doing any research, it took me to the turn going OUT of the dealer's lot to realize that this car had an open diff and I needed a LSD. So you will notice it on the street even if you don't mod the car.

All speculation of course.
Patrick

 

The LSD should help you in delivering power to the wheels and ground not take away HP.
The stock LSD will not be Quaife- too costly at $1070 for the MCS retail product.

I've checked around and most places will charge from $900 to $1500 for a Quaife install.
You might want to verify that you can get it installed for $450 or less- seems too good to be true.

Again if you go aftermarket you might pay $1500 but there is no MINI warranty and no advantage of putting the cost into your car loan. In my opinion I think the Quaife is a better LSD but we have no test MINI to check out who well it might work yet.

 

I had the good forture to see Randy this Sat at the 3rd anual Bay Area Pulley Party, and today (Monday) as he was doing a coilover and camber plate install for me. Being that I was with him the whole day, I had plenty of time for some quality 1:1 conversations. The Quaife did come-up...

He noted that the price of the Quaife would increase in the next few months. He also said that grinding (for fitment) is no longer needed on the newer manufactured ones. And as he shared in a thread recently, he feels that if one really knows how to work the gas, they can turn times comparable to a like car with the Quaife. But for those who just want to plant their foot, this is the way to go! He will have a How To, so stay-tuned. A head How To is also in the works...

Since I know that I would be in there anyways (clutch and flywheel), I will probably go that route. It will however make the CA smog procedure more complicated, so that is a concern for some of us here. We'll see what happens...

If that proves to be not an issue, Peter at M7 said that Steve does great work, and for very reasonable prices!

dgszweda1, as I understand it, you will see the benefits on the street, but not often. I live in a canyon, so I would see it more so than others (as far as street/commute driving is concerned). I would say that if you are getting some work done already, like a clutch and/or lightened flywheel, I would consider it if you can spare an extra 1k. If not, I guess I would not...

 

If we don't think it will be a quaife, what are the advantages or disadvantages of using the torson diffs?

 

I've never seen a fwd Torsen.

 

how would the LSD affect smog?

Wasn't there a post from PA where the MINI FWD was a problem for emission testing? and required a variance?

I heard that they simply hook up to the OBDII and read out data rather than run a load test

 

FYI, when Ford of Europe started putting Quaifes in their hottest Focus model (RS, I think) the price of the Quaife dropped to $595 from any Ford dealer. Unfortunately, that specific Quaife only fit the 5-speed Focus, like the RS and ZX3. But, it shows how economies of scale can help bring down the costs of aftermarket parts.

Cheese, a recent issue of GRM showed a prototype Torsen brand differential installed in their project MCS. Although the Torsen brand is usually unique to RWD/AWD cars, the very similar functioning Quaife and Peloquin are often used in FWD cars.

 

When I smogged my '90 Subaru beater wagon last year in CA it was able bypass the new dyno-like roller test. In chatting with the fella there, he said that some cars with LSDs are not able to take this new test as error codes come-up, so they will be given the older style test. I then asked the guy a hypothetical question about adding an LSD to my other car (MINI), and he said that if I add something that makes it not smog-able, that I might be held responsible for that alteration. He advised me to call the local BAR, and I did. We talked for a while, and he said bascially the same thing - if their computer says that the car should be able to take the new test, and if one has done something that makes it not possible, that person might indeed run into some problems with the state. After much back and forth, he understood my points, and said that time would tell...

 

My BMW with a LSD did the So Cal SMOG no problem. I really doubt that a LSD could mess up the smog test. You'd have a better chance of DSC kicking in and messing the dyno test.

Patrick

 

Good to hear Patrick. As explained to me, some cars with LSD don't pose a problem, while others do. If LSD comes from the factory, and it throws errors on the new smog test, they try a couple more times, then revert back to the traditional method via an exemption. However, if the car was modified (LSD added), and by virtue of that change the state can't test it... blah, blah, blah...

I explained that an LSD of course does not impact emissions, and the BAR guy acknowledged that. So, because I want to make my car more safe on the wet canyon roads where I live, I've now made my car illegal with a device that you recognize as not being a factor?

After that empathetic plea, the guy really didn't know what to say...

I started a thread nearly a year ago on this topic as it did conern me a little. I'm guessing that the very first CA MINI owners will start smogging their cars next April or so. If any got LSD's, it would nice to hear from them...