I was having a conversation with my mechanic last night about what to do to my 2011 MCCS. I had always thought the intake would be the thing to do. I've been debating between NM, DDM and M7, but thought it would be cool to have one that makes the scoop functional.

However, in the middle of that conversation, he came out and said no, you want to do the intercooler. Intercooler, intake, tune, possibly exhaust in there too. I've never even thought about the intercooler. I was thinking intake, exhaust, tune.

So given that, what intercooler should I look at? I see the one from Helix that's about to come out. I've seen the Forge on WMW. I've read something about eBay. Would I need to do hoses too or just stick with stock?

This is my daily driver and I don't do track days, but I absolutely love taking it to western NC or southern VA for runs on the really twisty roads.

 

I have the eBay forgery inter cooler it works great but now that the new helix is coming and priced right I would but that one. I doubt it works that much better than eBay but it looks good , not that you can see it installed.

As for intake , go JCW STYLE , forget the open HOT air intakes. I learned all they do is sound cool and suck in hot air. I have the ECS CF which is basically a CF JCW. Keeps my IAT much lower than open filter did.

 

I just spotted this on Craigslist here in Phoenix, Arizona. If you can work out the shipping you will save some money for the other upgrades;

TRADE "Alta" for Mini Cooper S "stock air box"

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/wan/5076548693.html

I do not know the seller so I cannot vouch for them

 

the only thing the aftermarket intakes do is make more noise, so if thats what u are looking for then get one. they dont really do anything for power. if you want power get an FMIC and a turbo back catless exhaust.

i have the Wagner FMIC and love it.

 

FWIW, I have an Alta "CAI" (open filter) and my IAT's are typically only a few degrees above ambient as long as I'm moving. I have removed the scoop insert as recommended by Alta. Could I lower the intake temps a bit by going to a closed system? Probably. But as others have pointed out it is unlikely to gain me any power, and the open filter does sound pretty bad-***.

Helix has recently posted data showing what a well-designed intercooler can do for power, so there are definitely gains to be had in that area. As for exhaust, hi-flow or catless down-pipe is a must. There is much debate as to whether larger-than-stock diameter exhaust from the DP back will make any difference power-wise, but most agree it's mostly for sound.

 

Stock intake IS a cold air intake, a high flow filter is a good option. That said, I have the Alta CAI. Originally bought an eBay IC so I could get a better tune, had it for over a year now and just put a deposit on the new Helix IC. I see more people say 2.5 inch exhaust is the way to go instead of 3".


IC does a lot for your engine, "CAI" not so much.

 

I'm sure that people will argue, but the tune is the best thing you can do for your car. The issue is that if you intend to do FMIC and engine mods, then you will have to retune to optimize to your new setup.


Select your tune partner and talk with them about changes that affect your tune. Do those updates before getting tuned. For example, they might have the opinion that a cat back doesn't affect the tune, but a catless DP does. Notice I said 'tune partner', not 'tuner'. Have a conversation and feel comfortable with changes before spending money. you will be into $2k if you do a tune, FMIC, cat back, and CAI. If you can't do all at once, do the tune first. It will give you the most smiles per dollar, but you may have to retune later.


have fun,
Mike

 

All good info. Thanks much. As I mentioned, I always thought the CAI was the next thing to do until he mentioned the intercooler. It now sounds like that is true from what I have read in the replies. The Helix one looks really intriguing and I would love to get in on the first run but I am in the process of buying a home and may not have the cash by the time they come in. I wonder what the price after the first run will be.

With regard to exhaust, what are my options in a state where there are emissions tests? I see cat delete and catless and think "can I even do that?" I know from riding behind an obnoxious Countryman last weekend that I do not want to do a muffler delete. Most everyone on the run was complaining about it. LOL! I like the Remus exhaust on the R55. Perhaps mainly because that is the one I've heard.

The guy I go to does Manic tunes I believe. He was at MOTD doing tunes. He's been very good at what he does for the North Carolina crowd. We have talked about that but it's been more of a "once you have these things then we tune" kind of conversation. I don't know if he would tune and then retune later after mods are made.

 

You gotta start somewhere. https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...s-for-n18.html

 

Your mechanic was correct in telling you there are no gains in the intake.

Intercoolers really do work. I'm currently running the forge intercooler on my car and have logged the temps so I know it works and can highly recommend it.

 

About the as long as your moving statement , problem is sitting at light getting ready to spank the ricer your IAT is now hot and you gulp a giant breathe of hot air and your car pulls timing and ricer leaves you .

And the forgery eBay FMIC works great as well.

 

Your friends not steering you wrong. Intercooler, exhaust and intake or K&N panel filter, then tune. Ditto on what was said above about the JCW intake. It may not sound as nice as some of the aftermarket ones currently available but for performance it's tough to beat.

 

I think I will go with the FMIC as the next performance thing. Sounds like it would be a worth it option. Thanks for all the info. Much appreciated. I think I'd rather go for proven gains versus just noise.

 

DDM intake has a option to use scoop to make it fully functional, I have it on my clubby.


But FMIC is the best to start of with,

 

go with a KN drop in filter and the intercooler

intakes cause the MAF to read too fast causing boost loss, 9-11psi is what you will see with an intake and intercooler on the stock tune, going to a drop in filter you will see 12-15psi, i would have to pull my data logs if you want to see proof but trust me, intakes just make noise and makes you lose a lot of power

now if you are tuned, an intake makes sense cause you will have better flow and you can tune the car around the intake(thus keeping the boost levels where you want them)

also you wont gain anything with a FMIC, but your car will not lose as much power due to high IATs caused by an inefficient intercooler

 

I want to clarify an important but critical difference between flow and pressure. Boost pressure has only an indirect bearing on power. If for example you place a flow restrictor in the intake and run 25 lbs of boost you will see a net loss of HP. 1 lb/min of airflow equals ~10 hp regardless of boost pressure. The intent of boost pressure is to increase intake charge density thereby allowing more air mass to enter the engine during each intake event. The MAF sensor does not read too high with a free flowing intake. It is in fact reading correctly. With a restriction forward of the MAF sensor the ECU senses less lbs/min of air entering the intake path. As a result duty cycle to the wastegate controller is increased to force the turbo to draw more air into the engine. In other words your turbo has to work harder to deliver the same lbs/min the ECU is requesting based on driver wish and the load tables. In the past I compared data logs taken during dyno runs before and after installing a DDMWorks RIS intake on a stock tune. Taking into consideration minor variations in temperature/humidity the net results to the wheels were the same. It just sounded better and the turbo was turning less RPM to reach target.

This is the principle by which the JB+ is able to alter boost levels. It alters the pulse modulated signal sent by the MAF sensor to trick the ECU into thinking less air mass is entering the system so boost is raised. With a tune however the load tables are altered so that the engine is requesting more air and will boost as necessary (within restraints) to reach that target. In short 21 psi flowing 22 lbs/min will produce less HP than 21 psi @ 25 lbs/min, all else being equal.

 

in my experience, 1/4 mile and 0-60 times were slower, all i did was make noise and attract unnecessary attention, for our sized turbos and motor, an open intake wont do much and a high flow drop in filter is more than sufficient, again all on the stock tune

your example only applies if you're tuned and you're right, 13psi with 22lbs/min will make less hp and tq than 13psi with 25lb/min, but because the stock tune will see about 3psi less(sometimes even more, as much as 5psi) with an intake as opposed to the stock box and a high flow drop in filter the argument becomes, 13psi with 22lb/min vs 9psi with 25lb/min and i doubt the higher flow will net the same HP and TQ as the higher boost, not to mention the open element intakes all intake hot air from the engine bay as opposed to cold air from the front of the car with the stock box, hot air as you know is less dense than cold air

you're entitled to your own opinion, however I am also entitled to mine and my own personal opinion is, unless you're tuned, stick with the stock intake and a high flow filter

 

I think we're saying similar things but from different perspectives. I would agree that an aftermarket intake makes little sense, other than for aesthetic reasons without a tune to take advantage of it. However I would never recommend anyone install an open air filter EVER. Might as well wire six or seven hair dryers up and point them straight at your intake. In my own experience I never witnessed a five or even three psi difference in boost. With the DDMWork RIS intake I still saw 14.2 psi in over boost on a stock untuned MCS. What I did notice however was that it was more difficult to reach the load necessary to trigger over boost. Flooring it on an uphill on-ramp etc... would still produce the same pressures it did before and the dyno doesn't lie. Same dyno, same operator almost the same conditions and got the same results.

In fact many other modifications will also make very little change with out a tune to take advantage of it. A larger volume intercooler requires more turbo output to reach the same pressure increasing lag. A catless downpipe will reduce low RPM torque and response. An aftermarket exhaust also makes little difference.

Most of this is a direct result of the design work performed by BMW since all the components are designed to work together. Good Lord that almost sounded like a compliment for BMW. Excuse me for a moment while I go brush my teeth to get the taste out of my mouth.

 

I have sure tried alot of things with my MINI. I need to get to a real dyno BUT I got some numbers from another guy running the manic stage 2 with no cat and miltek exhaust and he has 255HP and 227 TQ , this is using a dashcommand so the testing should be very close using the same info, I got 227 HP with 233 TQ . I think if I had a catless DP I could possibly gain 20 hp and be very close to the manic stage 2 , BUT I have more TQ as it is.


SO my testing shows FMIC with JB+, custom cat back exhaust, ECS CF ( a real CAI ) that you can gain quite a bit.

I tried the K&N typhoon but was seeing quite a temp rise sitting at a light, and I for one like to be able to leave the line without having diminished power for the heat soak. Granted the FMIC would cool down as soon you got moving but by then the competition would be gone. SO for testing I taped off the open top of the typhoon and that greatly reduced heat soaking at the light. So I went looking for a true CAI a since a JCW intake box, but the cost of buying those exceeded the ESC CF system, which looks great and performs as a CAI using the factory tube to the front of car with the benefits of a low restriction air filter.

I do miss the noise of open type air box but I prefer power to sound, and I still hear quite a bit with my exhaust.

Forgot to add I also run the GFB DV+ which seems to keep boost up , and seeing 21.5 pounds with current setup I am also glad I went one step colder plugs. I only saw that number once so i assume it was in over boost at that stage, now that temps are near 100F I normally see 18-19 pounds.