Drivetrain (Cooper S) MINI Cooper S (R56) intakes, exhausts, pulleys, headers, throttle bodies, and any other modifications to the Cooper S drivetrain.

Drivetrain Burger Motorsports (BMS) Tune(s)

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  #1026  
Old 11-24-2013, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by iminir56
91 from the US the same as 91 in Canada?
Yes (from Wikipedia)
In most countries, including Australia and all of those in Europe[citation needed], the "headline" octane rating shown on the pump is the RON, but in Canada, the United States, Brazil, and some other countries, the headline number is the average of the RON and the MON, called the Anti-Knock Index (AKI, and often written on pumps as (R+M)/2). It may also sometimes be called the Pump Octane Number (PON).
 
  #1027  
Old 11-24-2013, 07:15 AM
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What is 'empirical data'?
 
  #1028  
Old 11-24-2013, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Coop-a-Loop
What is 'empirical data'?
When people say empirical data they mean actual quantitative measurements not butt dynos.
 
  #1029  
Old 11-24-2013, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Green Flash
Many thanks to Snaponit for a post with specific data. Researching the forum for information on the actual performance of products touted to increase the performance of your MINI finds comments like: "added to my MINI and it sounds great," "have one on order, can't wait," "feels like it is faster." With many members of this forum running their MINIs on dynos, and a large number having data loggers of different varieties, there should be empirical data to document actual performance gains (or, maybe no gains). If a you have actually measured the difference in performance made by a bolt-on modification, please share it with the membership. Having actual data will help the membership make educated decisions, rather than emotionally throwing money at fancy marketing.
I agree, but there are numerous posts throughout this forum with measured data with regard to the JB+ .
 
  #1030  
Old 11-24-2013, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Coop-a-Loop
What is 'empirical data'?
MarioKart's post of a dyno on his GP2.
 
  #1031  
Old 11-24-2013, 07:51 AM
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That's what I thought. That is the kind of info that is and has been posted here for months. Thought I missed something....lol
 
  #1032  
Old 11-24-2013, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by cerenkov
Here's a graph for a 4th gear pull tonight, outside temps were in the 40's.
How are you getting AFR with the Palmer software? Do you have a wide band?

I am guessing there is a script that can be written since the scan gauge 2 pull AFR.
 

Last edited by wzabrouski; 11-24-2013 at 10:08 AM.
  #1033  
Old 11-24-2013, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by wzabrouski
How are you getting AFR with the Palmer software? Do you have a wide band?

I am guessing there is a script that can be written since the scan gauge 2 pull AFR.
The PID that I'm using is calc.afr_actual which I believe takes SAE.lambda and multiplies it by 14.68. The numbers seem reasonable.

Maybe someone else can chime in. I'm not very knowledgeable on this yet.
 
  #1034  
Old 11-24-2013, 10:28 AM
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I was configuring the full scan xl software that I have had for a few years. I was copying your graph and adding some other pids but could not figure out AFR. I had to add an innovate wide band and on my r53 in order to get AFR.
 

Last edited by wzabrouski; 11-24-2013 at 10:34 AM.
  #1035  
Old 11-24-2013, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by wzabrouski
I was configuring the full scan xl software that I have had for a few years. I was copying your graph and adding some other pids but could not figure out AFR. I had to add an innovate wide band and on my r53 in order to get AFR.
On the graph I simplified the names instead of displaying the PID name.

If someone wants to come up with a "standard" format they can save and post the graph layout file.
 
  #1036  
Old 11-24-2013, 12:34 PM
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Quick question, the JB+ comes shipped with the dial at 50% which is good for the stock engine. We can get UP to 20whp out of this which I'm assuming is at 100% on the dial so my question is what will I need to turn this baby all the way up? So far I have a intake, hot side tube and catback exhaust on my cooper S
 
  #1037  
Old 11-24-2013, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by cerenkov
On the graph I simplified the names instead of displaying the PID name.

If someone wants to come up with a "standard" format they can save and post the graph layout file.
Calculated Load Value Calculated Load Value
Long Term Fuel Trim - Bank 1
Long Term Fuel Trim - Bank 3
Engine RPM
Ignition Timing Advance for #1 Cylinder
Innovate Wide Band O2 Sensor Air/Fuel Ratio

This is what I used to log to do remote tunes but I need to figure out the AFR's without the wideband on the software.
 
  #1038  
Old 11-24-2013, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Jarvis
Quick question, the JB+ comes shipped with the dial at 50% which is good for the stock engine. We can get UP to 20whp out of this which I'm assuming is at 100% on the dial so my question is what will I need to turn this baby all the way up? So far I have a intake, hot side tube and catback exhaust on my cooper S
How I understand it, it's up to 20 whp and 30 wtq at the default setting. Burger does not recommend increasing the setting.

The biggest factor is higher octane gas.
 
  #1039  
Old 11-24-2013, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by cerenkov
Here's a graph for a 4th gear pull tonight, outside temps were in the 40's.
10.4 peak boost, I guess it's normal to get lower boost when it's cold outside. It's in the 30's here in TN now and I'm getting ~10psi without the JB+, and 12-13 with it. Just a month ago I was hitting 16psi when it was 80 outside. That's a huge difference.
 
  #1040  
Old 11-24-2013, 01:32 PM
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It's been said many times that the mini ecu is load based. It does not take as much air when it is cooler and denser to achieve the max load set at the various rpm/gear selections.
 
  #1041  
Old 11-24-2013, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Azminispeedin
It's been said many times that the mini ecu is load based. It does not take as much air when it is cooler and denser to achieve the max load set at the various rpm/gear selections.
Does this apply to an ECU remap as well or do they override the ECU and allow higher boost in cold conditions. I'm trying to justify a full tune.
 
  #1042  
Old 11-24-2013, 05:29 PM
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Again, this ECU is load based.

Dyno tune or piggyback, the ECU will behave the same.

These aren't like other turbo cars where the turbo will be pegged at whatever psi has been programmed and stay there through the entire rev range.

Colder weather is great, less psi needed to make the same HP target. If your car only needs 12psi to make the same power as 16psi during the summer then there's nothing wrong with that.
 
  #1043  
Old 11-24-2013, 05:49 PM
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Got it, thanks. This is new to me. I wanted to be sure something isn't wrong.
 
  #1044  
Old 11-24-2013, 07:45 PM
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If you are concerned about what your peak boost is, just create a heavy load situation. Short shift to 3rd and go for a wot pull when you're between 2.5-3k. You should see your peak boost. This is a good way to eliminate weather variables.
 
  #1045  
Old 11-25-2013, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by NewCooperFanatic
Again, this ECU is load based.

Dyno tune or piggyback, the ECU will behave the same.

These aren't like other turbo cars where the turbo will be pegged at whatever psi has been programmed and stay there through the entire rev range.

Colder weather is great, less psi needed to make the same HP target. If your car only needs 12psi to make the same power as 16psi during the summer then there's nothing wrong with that.
Sorry if this is a dumb question but why not still produce 16psi and make MORE HP? It seems like if you had colder air you should be able to produce more HP with the same engine/set up.

Thanks
 
  #1046  
Old 11-25-2013, 11:04 AM
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Fuel efficiency. It's all about the MPG's
 
  #1047  
Old 11-25-2013, 11:16 AM
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Nothing like the laws of thermodynamics getting in the way of a good turbo boost reading. I think it is about consistent engine output. I think the driveability would be impacted if the turbo did not adjust to temperatures.
 
  #1048  
Old 11-25-2013, 03:19 PM
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Drivability just becomes seasonal. I've had other turbo cars with mechainicallly set boost levels. Summer is awful (less dense air). Winter gives you a rocket ship! MINI isn't so seasonal.
 
  #1049  
Old 11-25-2013, 03:48 PM
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It is not density - it is efficiency. The greater the difference between temperature the greater the engine efficiency - thus the higher energy output. The second law of thermodynamics applies (exergy?).
 
  #1050  
Old 11-25-2013, 07:15 PM
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Would you guys say 91octane with 30% ethanol equates to Canadian 94 octane? More or less?
 


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