Sorry if this has been covered before, but I would like to know if this Intake Muffler Delete will improved throttle response and a slight increase in HP? Has anyone confirmed that this muffler delete does indeed add a few hp?

Really appreciate any feedback!

 

Been covered... you can just place tape over the holes inside the pipe and get the same effect.

It does not add power.. some claim throttle response... (even though our cars dont use a direct throttle.. lol.. ).

There was a lengthy thread a few weeks back on this.

 

If you're going to buy a pre-made pipe, buy this one: http://www.siliconeintakes.com/produ...162229ab168017

I doubt it really gets you anything tangible, but it can't hurt.

 

agreed. It's about an inch longer that the muffler so it gives you a pretty snug fit.

 

I dunno, that looks more like its would *add* heat...

 

Yeah, just like the FMIC adds heat.

 

Which sits out front... Not stuffed in the bay..

 

I'm no expert on thermodynamics, but as long as the air outside the pipe is cooler than the air inside the pipe, the heat sink should pull heat away from the inside air. I don't know how much the air outside the pipe is moving around, but I have a hard time believing it's completely stagnant.

 

There is a reason why they make intake duct work out of plastic.

It's hot in there.

It's not stagnant, it's hot air blowing around.

Try putting your hand on that pipe when the car is hot.

The plastic transfers heat slower than the metal surfaces do..

 

It's plastic because plastic is cheap. I don't buy your argument. Plastic would be better in the short term but worse once the car is at operating temperatures.

Hot is a relative term, so I'm not sure what your point is there. I'm sure the air coming from the turbo is even hotter. As long as the air inside the pipe is hotter than the air outside there is the potential for heat dissipation. It's most likely negligible, but saying that a metal piece is going to add heat is a dubious claim.

 

Then break out the IR Thermo gun and prove me wrong.

Look at the data from the sensors.

Get back to me.

There is a reason why race cars don't use the fancy chrome piping you see on Honda Civics intakes.

Plastic is lighter and holds less heat. Welcome to 2013. And yes, its cheaper to make.

This is why in other car forums people run phenolic spacers on aluminum intakes to separate it from the head.

I'm sorry if you spent money on the pipe and I think its doing more harm than good.

 

If it was solid metal I might agree but the increased surface area of the fins acts like a heat sink (just like on a computer processor) allowing more heat to be pulled away.

At the end of the day, I'd guess that the two parts perform 99% the same anyway. It's such a short run that I doubt it matters.

 

Also, if plastic is the better cooling material, why is the intercooler aluminum?

 

Plastic intercoolers are coming, well, at least the side tanks are.. Manuf. have used plastic side tanks for years in heater cores and radiators.

And again, an intercooler has a lot of airflow over it to shed heat. Much more surface area.. Much more COOL air flowing against it.. Not sitting in an engine bay cooking away.

This is why you don't see intercoolers/radiators looking like electronic heat sinks with just fins on an aluminum plate inside an engine bay.. Or fins on aluminum intake manifolds..

 

danjreed, your argument is based on the right over all ideas, but it's 100% opposite of what actually works.

You want the heat to RADIATE OUT of the system. Why is the temp higher on the outside of a heatsink such as pictured, than inside? BECAUSE IT'S DOING IT'S JOB OF EVACUATING THE HEAT. Aluminum is awesome for this, and the heatsink provides more surface area to pull the heat out. That's how heatsink's work. Why don't you take the aluminum heatsink off your processor because "it's hot to te touch" and see how long it takes for your computer to fail.

 

Except... Heat sinks are not check valves... They will flow heat both ways.

Tell me, if the air inside the tube is already cooler than the heat load under the hood.. Which way will the heat flow..?

From that "cooler" into the tube..

Again, go measure intake air temperature... Then measure the heat under the hood with a hot engine..

 

The ambient temperature outside of a boost pipe filled with compressed hot air(which is exactly what comes out of the turbo and into that pipe) will not ever be hotter. Sorry, but it just won't. I get that your set in your mindset, but you're wrong and I don't want someone to see how sure of yourself you are and take it as fact. That's how misinformation spreads.

Fact: Turbo piping on most vehicles(especailly when doing it aftermarket or upgrading and upping boost) is aluminum rather than plastic.
Fact: Cost is the ONLY benefit to using plastic as the factory does.
Fact: The ambient temperature in your engine bay should never ever be hotter than what's inside a pipe connected to any pipe your turbocharger is pressurizing.
Fact: Radiators, intercoolers, and heatsinks are made of the materials they are because of their heat transfer properties and will never have fins made of plastic, sorry. That wouldn't exactly work as plastic is an insulator and not a conductor of heat.

I'm not trying to specifically "attack" you, but you're very firm in your idea but it's not correct and I'd hate for someone to read into it and believe something that isn't true on an information forum.

 

Well, I guess the stuff I read about from SAE magazines is just wrong then.

Edit- if that pipe were cooled somehow, I could see it working. But I can't see it doing a damn thing except adding a heat path to the intake as the car heat soaks in traffic.

 

And again, we're back to how a heatsink works. I understad it CAN go both ways, but the turbo is producing heat. Lots of it. Tons of it. Same reason the car HAS an intercooler(which with an air to air intercooler, works exactly the same as a heatsink with the exception that it also allows air to flow THROUGH it, over many many many more fins. An air to air intercooler is essentially a large heatsink. if the ambient air were hotter than the internal compressed air(which is damn near never will be, I promise), sure, it would work the opposite way.

How many tubocharged motors have you had hands on experience with? What is your automotive background? I'm not saying I'm more knowledgable with this than you, simply saying you must have some sort of higher knowledge being that you are saying the exact opposite of what everyone is doing/building/believing in the world of engine building and turbo's and heat management.

I'm not saying that particular part is some amazing cooling device, but you're trying to argue that plastic is a better material for charge pipes. I just can't allow that kind of proven-wrong information to be plastered about. Plastic is an insulator, aluminum is a conductor, and the heat inside is higher than the heat outside the turbo system.

In your words of the heatsink "holding" heat, that's the exact thing plastic does. Aluminum TRANSFERS it. Plastic won't allow it to escape.

 

Before I go into what I do for a living.. Or how many turbo cars I've worked on... (lots.. with lots of training..).. Been doing this since 93 as a professional, before I started teaching engine performance on a college level since 2000..

Look back at the START of thread... look at the stock "intake muffler" on real OEM.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...12&hg=13&fg=20

Look at what it does.

Look at where its located..

LOOK at WHERE THAT PRE-COOLER PIPE IS SUPPOSED TO GO (before, the intercooler.. duh?)

http://www.siliconeintakes.com/produ...162229ab168017

Look at where its being SUGGESTED it goes in its place (before the turbo... in the back of a stale hot engine..)

Now, please tell me how that chunk of aluminum is supped to help cool things down before they go to the turbo..? With stale hot - already heated air from the heat exchangers - air at the back of the engine?

(edited for clarity..)

 

Isn't the stock muffler on the hot side pipe?

Edit: after clicking your realoem link I think we finally found the problem, in that we're arguing different parts. The part in question is on the hot side pipe after the turbo, before the intercooler.

P.s. InjectedGT, thanks for jumping in. I was getting pretty frustrated the other day.

 

danjreed, you do understand the picture you posted up doesn't show the actual part people are talking about here, right? That RealOEM link lists the intake box lid as the "intake muffler". While this is a mix up of terminology, that's not the part anyone here is talking about replacing with a straight pipe at all. Seriously???

 

No, its on the cold (pre turbo) side of things...

Air Inlet tube > muffler > air filter > MAF > Pipe > Turbo > Pipe > Intercooler > Pipe > Intake.

Ok, well, that makes a lot more sense....

BTW, Carb-ie guys are starting to switch over to plastic as well...

http://www.dragzine.com/features/sem...r-sbc-engines/

 

Seriously??

You call it something that Mini calls it..Therfore.. That's the part you are talking about..

 

Understandable, but did you not click the link the OP put up showing the part he wants to buy along with the part it replaces?