Drivetrain Standard motor 380CC injectors
1st Gear
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 16
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From: London
There's not a thing wrong with that spray pattern on the Bosch 380's- it's perfect for this head. You must be referring to the atomization, which as stated in earlier posts, these, like almost every other EV14 Bosch dual cone, atomize further once the fuel impacts the backside of the intake valve. 
The reason they are most like the 550's (Bosch #0280158117), is because they are both Bosch EV14 dual cone injectors.
Also, regarding your "400cc" flow rate, at what fuel pressure did you have these tested? They are 373cc at 3 bar, and 400cc at 3.5 bar (our fuel pressure). The specs I just posted are identical to JCW 380's which were flow tested earlier in this thread.
The reason they are most like the 550's (Bosch #0280158117), is because they are both Bosch EV14 dual cone injectors.
Also, regarding your "400cc" flow rate, at what fuel pressure did you have these tested? They are 373cc at 3 bar, and 400cc at 3.5 bar (our fuel pressure). The specs I just posted are identical to JCW 380's which were flow tested earlier in this thread.
That video is mine being tested this morning.
I have picked the 5 closest flow rate to fit and am just waiting for it to stop raining to fit them
1st Gear
Joined: Jan 2012
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As far as the Mercury/Escort injectors mentioned I searched them on the web but they did not look much like the Focus 225 injectors, lots of plastic. has anyone successfully test them on the MINI?
1st Gear
Joined: Jan 2012
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Listings for the Ford Focus ST 225 injectors:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-FO...item53f1334c8c
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-FO...item53f133e5e4
For the Ford Escort mentioned:
http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/pro...FWMV7Aodzj0Ahw
They do not look similar to me, but then again I am not an expert and they could be the same with different body shells.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-FO...item53f1334c8c
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-FO...item53f133e5e4
For the Ford Escort mentioned:
http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/pro...FWMV7Aodzj0Ahw
They do not look similar to me, but then again I am not an expert and they could be the same with different body shells.
I'm not talking about Escort or Mercury injectors- I'm talking about Ford Mondeo injectors, from the EDM Ford 2.5L Turbo 5 Cylinder motor, over seas. This is the same exact motor and injector set used in the EDM 225 Focus ST, as well as the same injectors used in multiple late model (2005+) USDM Volvo models that use the 2.5 turbo 5 cylinder. FYI: USDM = United States Domestic Market. EDM = European Domestic Market)
For your reference, view this listing and then look at the list of cars this injector fits: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-FO...item53f133e5e4
If this is not enough, feel free to contact a UK based Ford dealer's parts department to verify.
Also, as I said before, the only reason to buy the Focus ST or Mondeo injectors from The UK is because they are typically cheaper than buying the Volvo versions from a US based seller, even though they are the same parts. The American Ebay has tons of these injectors available (2005-2011 Volvo C30, C70, S40, V50, and S60 2.5L Turbo 5 Cylinder.
If you have any doubts, again, the information is out there; I just looked for literally weeks to put it all together for the benefit of the Forum. Google any variation of the following: Bosch# "0280158096" + "Volvo T5" or "Mondeo" or "Focus ST 225". Additionally, Bosch# 0280158025 is an interchangeable part for the above mentioned, but hardly worth mentioning other than for reference, as it's a part only used in Eastern Europe.
I'll try to make time to construct a clear and concise post that documents ALL of the pertinent information in this thread, so that we can make a sticky that doesn't require looking through 15+ pages of conversation.
Cheers.
For your reference, view this listing and then look at the list of cars this injector fits: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-FO...item53f133e5e4
If this is not enough, feel free to contact a UK based Ford dealer's parts department to verify.
Also, as I said before, the only reason to buy the Focus ST or Mondeo injectors from The UK is because they are typically cheaper than buying the Volvo versions from a US based seller, even though they are the same parts. The American Ebay has tons of these injectors available (2005-2011 Volvo C30, C70, S40, V50, and S60 2.5L Turbo 5 Cylinder.
If you have any doubts, again, the information is out there; I just looked for literally weeks to put it all together for the benefit of the Forum. Google any variation of the following: Bosch# "0280158096" + "Volvo T5" or "Mondeo" or "Focus ST 225". Additionally, Bosch# 0280158025 is an interchangeable part for the above mentioned, but hardly worth mentioning other than for reference, as it's a part only used in Eastern Europe.
I'll try to make time to construct a clear and concise post that documents ALL of the pertinent information in this thread, so that we can make a sticky that doesn't require looking through 15+ pages of conversation.
Cheers.
Listings for the Ford Focus ST 225 injectors:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-FO...item53f1334c8c
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-FO...item53f133e5e4
For the Ford Escort mentioned:
http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/pro...FWMV7Aodzj0Ahw
They do not look similar to me, but then again I am not an expert and they could be the same with different body shells.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-FO...item53f1334c8c
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-FO...item53f133e5e4
For the Ford Escort mentioned:
http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/pro...FWMV7Aodzj0Ahw
They do not look similar to me, but then again I am not an expert and they could be the same with different body shells.
Last edited by TheBigChill; Jan 7, 2014 at 07:01 AM.
1st Gear
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 21
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I'm not talking about Escort or Mercury injectors- I'm talking about Ford Mondeo injectors, from the EDM Ford 2.5L Turbo 5 Cylinder motor, over seas. This is the same exact motor and injector set used in the EDM 225 Focus ST, as well as the same injectors used in multiple late model (2005+) USDM Volvo models that use the 2.5 turbo 5 cylinder. FYI: USDM = United States Domestic Market. EDM = European Domestic Market)
For your reference, view this listing and then look at the list of cars this injector fits: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-FO...item53f133e5e4
If this is not enough, feel free to contact a UK based Ford dealer's parts department to verify.
Also, as I said before, the only reason to buy the Focus ST or Mondeo injectors from The UK is because they are typically cheaper than buying the Volvo versions from a US based seller, even though they are the same parts. The American Ebay has tons of these injectors available (2005-2011 Volvo C30, C70, S40, V50, and S60 2.5L Turbo 5 Cylinder.
If you have any doubts, again, the information is out there; I just looked for literally weeks to put it all together for the benefit of the Forum. Google any variation of the following: Bosch# "0280158096" + "Volvo T5" or "Mondeo" or "Focus ST 225". Additionally, Bosch# 0280158025 is an interchangeable part for the above mentioned, but hardly worth mentioning other than for reference, as it's a part only used in Eastern Europe.
I'll try to make time to construct a clear and concise post that documents ALL of the pertinent information in this thread, so that we can make a sticky that doesn't require looking through 15+ pages of conversation.
Cheers.
For your reference, view this listing and then look at the list of cars this injector fits: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-FO...item53f133e5e4
If this is not enough, feel free to contact a UK based Ford dealer's parts department to verify.
Also, as I said before, the only reason to buy the Focus ST or Mondeo injectors from The UK is because they are typically cheaper than buying the Volvo versions from a US based seller, even though they are the same parts. The American Ebay has tons of these injectors available (2005-2011 Volvo C30, C70, S40, V50, and S60 2.5L Turbo 5 Cylinder.
If you have any doubts, again, the information is out there; I just looked for literally weeks to put it all together for the benefit of the Forum. Google any variation of the following: Bosch# "0280158096" + "Volvo T5" or "Mondeo" or "Focus ST 225". Additionally, Bosch# 0280158025 is an interchangeable part for the above mentioned, but hardly worth mentioning other than for reference, as it's a part only used in Eastern Europe.
I'll try to make time to construct a clear and concise post that documents ALL of the pertinent information in this thread, so that we can make a sticky that doesn't require looking through 15+ pages of conversation.
Cheers.
What I could get from looking at postings is that the ST 225 Focus owners what to increase the flows of their injectors, so the base injector has little aftermarket value, good for us.
Thanks again.
No problem at all. I understand that albeit unintentionally, the information in this thread can get to be a bit convoluted at times.
It can get confusing with respect to the Mondeo, as the Mondeo in Europe was offered at different times with two different 2.5L motors: a 2.5L V6, and a 2.5L Turbocharged Inline 5 Cylinder (what we want).
It can get confusing with respect to the Mondeo, as the Mondeo in Europe was offered at different times with two different 2.5L motors: a 2.5L V6, and a 2.5L Turbocharged Inline 5 Cylinder (what we want).
Thanks for the clarification, gets confusing because the car are very different here in the US but have the same name plate.
What I could get from looking at postings is that the ST 225 Focus owners what to increase the flows of their injectors, so the base injector has little aftermarket value, good for us.
Thanks again.
What I could get from looking at postings is that the ST 225 Focus owners what to increase the flows of their injectors, so the base injector has little aftermarket value, good for us.
Thanks again.
SO...........what's the best deal on a set of 380cc injectors that will work with the R53's? I started reading this thread.....but after page 5, my eyes crossed on me 
Can someone give me the "short version" so I don't have to read through all 15 pages of posts?
I'm wanting a set of 380cc injectors for my 03' JCW R53 (they didn't put the 380cc injectors in the JCW's until 05' if I remember right).
From what I say on the first few pages of the thread, there were several injectors you guys found that were around $200 for a set of four. That's a steal if they work good.
Can someone give me the "short version" so I don't have to read through all 15 pages of posts?
I'm wanting a set of 380cc injectors for my 03' JCW R53 (they didn't put the 380cc injectors in the JCW's until 05' if I remember right).
From what I say on the first few pages of the thread, there were several injectors you guys found that were around $200 for a set of four. That's a steal if they work good.
1st Gear
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
SO...........what's the best deal on a set of 380cc injectors that will work with the R53's? I started reading this thread.....but after page 5, my eyes crossed on me
Can someone give me the "short version" so I don't have to read through all 15 pages of posts?
I'm wanting a set of 380cc injectors for my 03' JCW R53 (they didn't put the 380cc injectors in the JCW's until 05' if I remember right).
From what I say on the first few pages of the thread, there were several injectors you guys found that were around $200 for a set of four. That's a steal if they work good.
Can someone give me the "short version" so I don't have to read through all 15 pages of posts?
I'm wanting a set of 380cc injectors for my 03' JCW R53 (they didn't put the 380cc injectors in the JCW's until 05' if I remember right).
From what I say on the first few pages of the thread, there were several injectors you guys found that were around $200 for a set of four. That's a steal if they work good.
The Volvo / Ford injectors are the Bosch injectors, and yes, they require adapters. The adapters barely get in the way of the intercooler, and I chose to gap the intercooler with washers for one reason: While I could've avoided doing so, I wanted to ensure that no intercooler fins cut into the injector adapter wires. Highly unlikely, but I rather not be hunting down short circuits due to laziness and assumptions.
If you're looking for a 380cc injector to use instead of the JCW units, I recommend Bosch part# 0280158096, and you can find out where to get those by reading back a few posts, and this entire thread is peppered with this info. I've posted it approximately eleventy billion times now
Your other option for a 380cc unit is the Helix / Genesis 380cc injector.
Short answer: You best bet for an inexpensive 380cc injector is as follows. They are the Volvo / Ford (Bosch) injectors that I've been talking about and using:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-FO...item53f1334c8c
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2008-Ford-...item4aca480d42
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Focus...item35cfc61270
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-focus...item3cd96d4a2d
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Focus...item3382d0db31
There ya go.
If you're looking for a 380cc injector to use instead of the JCW units, I recommend Bosch part# 0280158096, and you can find out where to get those by reading back a few posts, and this entire thread is peppered with this info. I've posted it approximately eleventy billion times now
Your other option for a 380cc unit is the Helix / Genesis 380cc injector.
Short answer: You best bet for an inexpensive 380cc injector is as follows. They are the Volvo / Ford (Bosch) injectors that I've been talking about and using:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-FO...item53f1334c8c
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2008-Ford-...item4aca480d42
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Focus...item35cfc61270
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-focus...item3cd96d4a2d
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Focus...item3382d0db31
There ya go.
OK after reading a few more threads around the place i think what your referring to is the actual binary image of the software that would be flashed onto the ecu/dme.
to everyone else (sorry for the random quotes just trying to keep it alive) we're not finished yet
we have the injectors but we need the software to run them properly.
i have done some research
Now there is 2 ways this can go:
first i
i heard there is a cd with a binary image of the software that would be flashed onto the ecu/dme. now this may be only for the early dealer installs before it was a factory option. and therefore doesn't matter cos they didn't install 380cc injectors
Second
I am sure i read somewhere after the factory installs became available the dealers had it included in the images they had on file inside there software (which in the install guide it says DIS). Now as the 210 option was made available in 2006 we can assume we need a DIS from on or after then to make sure we get the image file that will know about the injector upgrade and regulate the fuel correctly. this may require a jcw kit code or an authorisation code (and potentially more numbers for other things).
But the dealers are doing it so it must be able to be done.
I have the cheap bmw usb to odb2 which comes with the dealer software (DiS/GT1, INPA and SSS) just need to figure out if its new enough. i think.
So the holy grail is to flash the jcw 210 map using BMW diagnostic and programming tools. (and use bosch injectors) all available cheaply on fleebay.
does anyone work for BMW who could confirm one way or the other.
or anyone who could guide us in doing this.
the only people who could lose out are main dealers and I'm sure they don't care about $50 from us.
anyone with serious mods (BVH CAM etc) will get a proper tune where it makes sense to do so.
to everyone else (sorry for the random quotes just trying to keep it alive) we're not finished yet
we have the injectors but we need the software to run them properly.i have done some research
Now there is 2 ways this can go:
first i
i heard there is a cd with a binary image of the software that would be flashed onto the ecu/dme. now this may be only for the early dealer installs before it was a factory option. and therefore doesn't matter cos they didn't install 380cc injectors
Second
I am sure i read somewhere after the factory installs became available the dealers had it included in the images they had on file inside there software (which in the install guide it says DIS). Now as the 210 option was made available in 2006 we can assume we need a DIS from on or after then to make sure we get the image file that will know about the injector upgrade and regulate the fuel correctly. this may require a jcw kit code or an authorisation code (and potentially more numbers for other things).
But the dealers are doing it so it must be able to be done.
I have the cheap bmw usb to odb2 which comes with the dealer software (DiS/GT1, INPA and SSS) just need to figure out if its new enough. i think.
So the holy grail is to flash the jcw 210 map using BMW diagnostic and programming tools. (and use bosch injectors) all available cheaply on fleebay.
does anyone work for BMW who could confirm one way or the other.
or anyone who could guide us in doing this.
the only people who could lose out are main dealers and I'm sure they don't care about $50 from us.
anyone with serious mods (BVH CAM etc) will get a proper tune where it makes sense to do so.
I've called the only MINI dealer in my area, and when I start talking about JCW flashes, the guy goes blank.
Do I have to have the 210 tune to make my car run good with the 380cc injectors, or is the 200 tune that its got work just fine?
Any info would be great.....there has got to be people out there that have access to the JCW 210 tune. Anyone know what the difference between the 200 and 210 flash are?
1st Gear
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 16
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From: London
Does anyone have more info on what's needed to get the JCW 210 map installed? I have the JCW 200 map on my 03' JCW R53, but before I install the Bosch 380cc injectors (mine has the 340cc injectors) , I would like to see what's involved in getting the JCW 210 flash. I've called the only MINI dealer in my area, and when I start talking about JCW flashes, the guy goes blank. Do I have to have the 210 tune to make my car run good with the 380cc injectors, or is the 200 tune that its got work just fine? Any info would be great.....there has got to be people out there that have access to the JCW 210 tune. Anyone know what the difference between the 200 and 210 flash are?
I made a list of all the cars that the Bosch 0280158096 injector is used on from the factory earlier in this thread:
2005-2011 Volvo C30, C70, S40, V50 with the T5 motors. They MUST be the T5 (turbo 5 cylinder) engines. Also, Bosch #0280158096 and #0280158025 are interchangeable and have identical specs. Both are usable.
Interchangeable OEM Volvo Part#'s, if you wanted to buy directly from Volvo:
VOLVO 30757309
VOLVO 30757534
VOLVO 8653891
If you're not interested in used, then I would just pony-up and buy new JCW units. I'm willing to bet that a Volvo dealer wants ~$100 per injector.
The other option is buying them from the UK. The 2.5L 2005-2009 Ford Focus ST (again, Turbo 5 cylinder) uses these as factory parts, as does the 2.5L 2007-2009 Ford Mondeo (Turbo 5 cylinder). You can get 5 injectors for $100 all day long on Ebay.UK. This is what I did, and they work perfectly.
2005-2011 Volvo C30, C70, S40, V50 with the T5 motors. They MUST be the T5 (turbo 5 cylinder) engines. Also, Bosch #0280158096 and #0280158025 are interchangeable and have identical specs. Both are usable.
Interchangeable OEM Volvo Part#'s, if you wanted to buy directly from Volvo:
VOLVO 30757309
VOLVO 30757534
VOLVO 8653891
If you're not interested in used, then I would just pony-up and buy new JCW units. I'm willing to bet that a Volvo dealer wants ~$100 per injector.
The other option is buying them from the UK. The 2.5L 2005-2009 Ford Focus ST (again, Turbo 5 cylinder) uses these as factory parts, as does the 2.5L 2007-2009 Ford Mondeo (Turbo 5 cylinder). You can get 5 injectors for $100 all day long on Ebay.UK. This is what I did, and they work perfectly.
I've been searching ebay, and the UK ebay for used Volvo w/T5, Focus ST, and 2.5 Mondelo fuel rails and injectors....and I haven't found any that fall into the right year and model that have the rights Bosch 028015809 injectors. I'd love to get a set of nice used 380cc injectors to drop into my R53, but right now....I'm not having any luck.Has anyone else been able to find a good deal on the used Bosch 0280158096 injectors?
Just send them a message and ask if they'll ship to you. That's what I did, and almost all of them said "yes". If you want, send me links to the one's you're considering, and I'll confirm if they're correct or not. If you're willing to pay more, you can get these injectors from certain Volvo motors in the US (I listed those models several times in this thread). Good luck.
Yeah TheBigChill is right I just bought my St225 Injectors last week from the UK. All you have to do is message them and they will set it up so you can purchase them. I picked mine up for $100 shipped.
Took about 20 min. to install and the car has ran perfect ever since.
Took about 20 min. to install and the car has ran perfect ever since.
Yeah TheBigChill is right I just bought my St225 Injectors last week from the UK. All you have to do is message them and they will set it up so you can purchase them. I picked mine up for $100 shipped.
Took about 20 min. to install and the car has ran perfect ever since.
Took about 20 min. to install and the car has ran perfect ever since.
I'm glad you're enjoying the upgrade. I still plan on writing an "Injector Manifesto" in the near future, just to eliminate the need to sift through all these pages of info.
Yeah TheBigChill is right I just bought my St225 Injectors last week from the UK. All you have to do is message them and they will set it up so you can purchase them. I picked mine up for $100 shipped.
Took about 20 min. to install and the car has ran perfect ever since.
Took about 20 min. to install and the car has ran perfect ever since.
You didn't ask me, but I'm running them too (obviously). Running these injectors won't give you more power- that's not the point. The point is that it's essentially a "security blanket" of sorts, for folks who are running modifications that increase airflow through the motor (intake, pulley, cam). With these types of modifications, some people are concerned about two things: 1) Injector Duty Cycle on the stock 340cc's getting too close to 100% and 2) Running lean at high RPM's and boost. "Upgrading" to a higher flowing injector (within reason) mitigates those risks.
Using these injectors without a tune will hurt your gas mileage, and could even make you lose power depending on your car's current state.
The benefits and detriments are the same for these injectors as they are for the JCW units, only these are cheaper, newer, and more readily available.
Using these injectors without a tune will hurt your gas mileage, and could even make you lose power depending on your car's current state.
The benefits and detriments are the same for these injectors as they are for the JCW units, only these are cheaper, newer, and more readily available.
Last edited by TheBigChill; Jan 30, 2014 at 12:08 PM.
It sounds like there is a lot of different options out there on how the Mini DME handles the 380cc injectors. I've seen in some posts where people say "380cc injectors on a stock tune work great.....the DME will adjust the fuel based off of the 02 sensor at mid and part throttle, but then go to a pre-set rate at higher rpms....which with the bigger injectors, will make the engine run a little rich, which is good because it makes more power and keeps the EGT's cooler.
Other people are saying " 380cc injectors on the stock tune (or jcw 200hp tune) will make the engine run rich across the board......don't ever run 380cc injectors unless the tune is set up for them"
It seems like for every person I see who says "I run 380cc injectors with a stock tune and love them...the DME will adjust for the larger injectors on its own. "....there is another person saying "I tried running them with a stock tune and the car ran so rich it was horrible".
Hard to tell who knows what they are talking about, who is blowing smoke, and who is just repeating what they see on the internet
Other people are saying " 380cc injectors on the stock tune (or jcw 200hp tune) will make the engine run rich across the board......don't ever run 380cc injectors unless the tune is set up for them"
It seems like for every person I see who says "I run 380cc injectors with a stock tune and love them...the DME will adjust for the larger injectors on its own. "....there is another person saying "I tried running them with a stock tune and the car ran so rich it was horrible".
Hard to tell who knows what they are talking about, who is blowing smoke, and who is just repeating what they see on the internet
Here's the deal:
If you have a properly functioning primary O2 sensor, the O2 sensor and DME will scale these injectors properly under "Closed Loop" operation. This is when your car is fully warmed up, and you're just idling or tooling around at partial throttle. "Closed loop" means that your DME is using one or more (one in this case) O2 sensors as a feedback loop in order to adjust fuel trims.
Now, without a tune, these injectors will run rich(er) in two different scenarios: 1) Cold start: Meaning, you just started your car, and the DME is waiting to hear from the coolant temp sensor to say "Hey, I'm warm, cut back the fuel and bring the idle down". 2) Wide-open throttle: Your DME is programmed at the factory to add a certain amount of fuel during WOT driving, and it's a table typically based off of a combination of Throttle Position, RPM, and Manifold Pressure.
Both cold start and WOT are "Open Loop" operations, and if you have installed higher flowing injectors that are not scaled, you will run rich(er) in those two areas of operation. The reason for this is because you're running off of a predetermined table, and you've stuck higher flowing injectors into the equation- the DME doesn't know you've done this, and is still operating like you have stock 340cc's, until the car goes into "closed loop".
The first anecdote you listed is mostly accurate, except for the making more power part. More fuel does not equal more power. The Air:Fuel ratio needs to be improved on to actually make more power. What does it take to "improve" the AFR? Well, that depends on where you're at currently.
If you have a properly functioning primary O2 sensor, the O2 sensor and DME will scale these injectors properly under "Closed Loop" operation. This is when your car is fully warmed up, and you're just idling or tooling around at partial throttle. "Closed loop" means that your DME is using one or more (one in this case) O2 sensors as a feedback loop in order to adjust fuel trims.
Now, without a tune, these injectors will run rich(er) in two different scenarios: 1) Cold start: Meaning, you just started your car, and the DME is waiting to hear from the coolant temp sensor to say "Hey, I'm warm, cut back the fuel and bring the idle down". 2) Wide-open throttle: Your DME is programmed at the factory to add a certain amount of fuel during WOT driving, and it's a table typically based off of a combination of Throttle Position, RPM, and Manifold Pressure.
Both cold start and WOT are "Open Loop" operations, and if you have installed higher flowing injectors that are not scaled, you will run rich(er) in those two areas of operation. The reason for this is because you're running off of a predetermined table, and you've stuck higher flowing injectors into the equation- the DME doesn't know you've done this, and is still operating like you have stock 340cc's, until the car goes into "closed loop".
The first anecdote you listed is mostly accurate, except for the making more power part. More fuel does not equal more power. The Air:Fuel ratio needs to be improved on to actually make more power. What does it take to "improve" the AFR? Well, that depends on where you're at currently.
Last edited by TheBigChill; Jan 30, 2014 at 12:51 PM.
Yes I am running the stock tune. I currently have a 17% pulley, intake, screamin demon coil, kingsbourne wires, Megan header, one ball exhaust with magnaflow 11366 muffler. Plan on getting a cam and tune soon.
I have noticed no power increase since I installed the injectors, but honestly i didnt expect there to be one. They were intalled for piece of mind as TheBigChill said. I reset the adaptives after install. Car runs smooth. I haven't put enough miles on it to see what my decrease in mpg is yet.
I have noticed no power increase since I installed the injectors, but honestly i didnt expect there to be one. They were intalled for piece of mind as TheBigChill said. I reset the adaptives after install. Car runs smooth. I haven't put enough miles on it to see what my decrease in mpg is yet.
Here's the deal:
If you have a properly functioning primary O2 sensor, the O2 sensor and DME will scale these injectors properly under "Closed Loop" operation. This is when your car is fully warmed up, and you're just idling or tooling around at partial throttle. "Closed loop" means that your DME is using one or more (one in this case) O2 sensors as a feedback loop in order to adjust fuel trims.
Now, without a tune, these injectors will run rich(er) in two different scenarios: 1) Cold start: Meaning, you just started your car, and the DME is waiting to hear from the coolant temp sensor to say "Hey, I'm warm, cut back the fuel and bring the idle down". 2) Wide-open throttle: Your DME is programmed at the factory to add a certain amount of fuel during WOT driving, and it's a table typically based off of a combination of Throttle Position, RPM, and Manifold Pressure.
Both cold start and WOT are "Open Loop" operations, and if you have installed higher flowing injectors that are not scaled, you will run rich(er) in those two areas of operation. The reason for this is because you're running off of a predetermined table, and you've stuck higher flowing injectors into the equation- the DME doesn't know you've done this, and is still operating like you have stock 340cc's, until the car goes into "closed loop".
The first anecdote you listed is mostly accurate, except for the making more power part. More fuel does not equal more power. The Air:Fuel ratio needs to be improved on to actually make more power. What does it take to "improve" the AFR? Well, that depends on where you're at currently.
If you have a properly functioning primary O2 sensor, the O2 sensor and DME will scale these injectors properly under "Closed Loop" operation. This is when your car is fully warmed up, and you're just idling or tooling around at partial throttle. "Closed loop" means that your DME is using one or more (one in this case) O2 sensors as a feedback loop in order to adjust fuel trims.
Now, without a tune, these injectors will run rich(er) in two different scenarios: 1) Cold start: Meaning, you just started your car, and the DME is waiting to hear from the coolant temp sensor to say "Hey, I'm warm, cut back the fuel and bring the idle down". 2) Wide-open throttle: Your DME is programmed at the factory to add a certain amount of fuel during WOT driving, and it's a table typically based off of a combination of Throttle Position, RPM, and Manifold Pressure.
Both cold start and WOT are "Open Loop" operations, and if you have installed higher flowing injectors that are not scaled, you will run rich(er) in those two areas of operation. The reason for this is because you're running off of a predetermined table, and you've stuck higher flowing injectors into the equation- the DME doesn't know you've done this, and is still operating like you have stock 340cc's, until the car goes into "closed loop".
The first anecdote you listed is mostly accurate, except for the making more power part. More fuel does not equal more power. The Air:Fuel ratio needs to be improved on to actually make more power. What does it take to "improve" the AFR? Well, that depends on where you're at currently.
Also to note...
Folks running 17% unturned vs 15% unturned with 380's Tend to have slightly different experiences....
17% untuned with 380's imo run a bit better WOT, Than the Cars with 15%....
Does anyone have more info on what's needed to get the JCW 210 map installed? I have the JCW 200 map on my 03' JCW R53, but before I install the Bosch 380cc injectors (mine has the 340cc injectors) , I would like to see what's involved in getting the JCW 210 flash.
I've called the only MINI dealer in my area, and when I start talking about JCW flashes, the guy goes blank.
Do I have to have the 210 tune to make my car run good with the 380cc injectors, or is the 200 tune that its got work just fine?
Any info would be great.....there has got to be people out there that have access to the JCW 210 tune. Anyone know what the difference between the 200 and 210 flash are?
I've called the only MINI dealer in my area, and when I start talking about JCW flashes, the guy goes blank.
Do I have to have the 210 tune to make my car run good with the 380cc injectors, or is the 200 tune that its got work just fine?
Any info would be great.....there has got to be people out there that have access to the JCW 210 tune. Anyone know what the difference between the 200 and 210 flash are?
There is MORE THAN ONE VERSION OF THE JCW210 TUNE....
Make sure that you have the correct version for your ecu+year car...
The refresh cars (2005+) have an extra 2 sensors, and a updated ecu...result is the programming is different....
So there is a seperate jcw210 upgrade for pre-2005 cars, and 2005+ cars....