Haha, ok. So you can see how a book's going to read simply by looking at the cover? We got a stock MINI running an upgraded Sprintex SC to pass CARB Certification while making 35+WHP over the M45; you don't do that unless you have pretty good control of the ecu mappings.

There are a few things to address here:
1. A lot of evolution can happen in a year ... so i wouldn't based your current opinion on a conversation that happened last year.
2. At that time, you had a 2.0L stroker from another vendor and it was having issues (as you decribed it). Obviously, the other tuner's sw was not up to your standards. And that's why you were interested in purchasing the FA Tuning Kit...
3. Having heard first-hand from "people in the know" what happened to the Cobb AccessPort and how the other tuner took the AP map and called it their own, we were very cautious of how much info to divulge to you (you being his customer with all his parts, of course we have to be careful on what we say).
4. Honestly, we don't want to step into other people's mess. If your car was tuned by someone else and you're having issues, take it back to that tuner and get it resolved first.
5. We would rather not make the sale than to get blame for someone else's mishap.

I beg to differ. If that's the case, why do MoTeC, AEM, Autronic (etc) put a password feature on their ECU's? Even the Evo tuners are paying to buy licenses from Colby to lock their Evo tunes... i wonder why that is

If you're fine with giving away your IP, then that's on you. Don't knock other company who are in the business to profit so they can continue to innovate and improve on their products.

So if I come to you and ask, "hey 4wheels, can you give me a list of your maps and what they do, is that cool with you?" What would your answer be?

 

I think a little more "full disclosure" on your part would be nice for potential customers to be aware of what they're getting into with the Bytetronik FA kit.

You (either Mike or Jason) are not coders nor software developers. They rely on Colby, who left Cobb under suspicious circumstances regarding "borrowed IP" from his tenure there. He developed open ECU, which Bytetronik is based on, with different ECU definitions & plug ins to add features. Jason helps find maps & test.

The "feature" that you say is "required" for CARB of locking the ECU isn't entirely true now, is it? You could have left the seed keys the same as OEM, and the ECU would still be locked. This is the way the majority of other vehicle (other brands than Mini) tuning software works. The way you guys appear to have done it is rewrite portions of the OS layer (the Mini's Siemens ECU has 3 partitions, bootloader, OS, and tune/calibration data) and change a few things like the keys, so NOBODY else can read/write unless they have Bytetronik FA (or hack your altered keys). How is that a feature? That basically means if a customer purchases Bytetronik and uses it on their Mini even once, their ECU will forever be locked & no other tuner, or dealer, can work on it ever again. This keeps the customer locked to you & limits them to the maps you have figured out. The only IP you're protecting is the maps, as there's plenty of people who've figured out how to read/write the ECU, and the maps (lets face it) aren't worth all this hassle to real coders.

What if a customers FA kit breaks in the future & you've gone out of business? They're screwed! It's new ECU time, pay a dealer to code it to their vehicle, and start over with a new tune (or pay someone to hack their ECU & crack the Bytetronik keys, which will cost more than it's worth).

Also simply changing the supercharger to a Sprintex & tuning the car isn't that difficult. The factory ECU has VE maps that can extend beyond what the car comes with. Massive changes to hardware that completely alter the VE curve (big injectors combined with major headwork, race cams, long tube "tuned" resonance headers, custom intakes, turbos), especially changes that result in huge dips or spikes that are out of range of the factory calibration is where you'll run into problems. That and errors in tunes requiring the ECU to try & adapt where it shouldn't have to. That's the reason you guys talked about one of the main features of Bytetronik being able to "reset" adaptations. If the tune is right you don't have to do this at all.

 

Colby worked for COBB? He was a Microsoft Software Engineer from Seattle.. Get your facts straight. Just b/c your tuner 'borrowed maps' from Cobb, you automatically assumed that we did the same.

CARB requires that the CAL file be locked to preserve the integrity of the tune. I take it you have gone thru the CARB Certification process? I know we have...have you?

FA customers can always return their ECU back to "stock"... I guess you glanced over that in the Official FA Thread?

What if your car breaks? What if the world comes to an end... what if, what if... If MINIPort breaks, we will stand behind it and warranty it. You missed that in the thread as well?

Is this from your personal experience or some more heresay? Have you tuned a MINI on a Sprintex SC?

Wow. And I thought you knew your stuff. So you're telling me that BMW Adaptations will adapt itself to produce more HP?

We recently sold a FA Kit to a local MINI Shop b/c their GT1 Tool was not able to clear adaptations. He had 3 different cars that came in with misfiring issues, P420 issues, and he couldn't get the codes to stay off even after new O2 sensors were replace and coil/wires were changed out... We went in with FA, clear all adaptations, and whalaa... guess what, the codes stayed off and remained off

BTW, you have not answered my questions yet. You are such a philanthropist, why not share your maps and findings with the rest of the world?

 

The below information is from experience, and you can take it to the bank:

The Sprintex SC was running so much more efficient than the M45 that the ECU was NOT able to Adapt (or compensate) for the extra added air. . . and FA Mapping was needed to it pass the rigorous CARB testing procedure. FACT!

 

OP, sorry to hijack your thread. Just wanted to set some facts straight. My apologies...

 

As usual Mike/Jason, you're missing the facts & interpreting things in your own "fun" way. I never said the adaptations would make more power, but you guys claimed one of the features was you could reset your adaptations & make the car run better. If they buy your kit & the car is tuned properly this isn't needed. No other brand of car needs this done on a regular basis after it's tuned properly! Mini's tend to adapt themselves out of tune as the tunes aren't properly done to work within the ECU's abilities.

I think you're right... I've been thinking of starting a thread on these forums telling people how to properly tune the Mini's ECU. I think I will. Then they won't need to buy Bytetronik.

 

That's your customer's impression... fact is changing one positive displacement blower for another only moves the curve, but doesn't drastically change it's shape in a way that any tuner software couldn't fix if the tuner knew what they were doing. Load cells will likely require adjustment for load based injection time, but this is not complicated.

Where most tuners go wrong when doing this type of mod is they simply change injector scaling (often incorrectly) and then adjust only a part throttle VE trim map & they presume this adjusts the entire VE map, but it doesn't. Also there is a setting in the ECU for engine/cylinder volume up & downstream of the supercharger that often needs adjustment with radical changes.

 

That's funny, as my previous tuner who originally did the work & others who apparently were in contact stated you guys borrowed maps from him while trying to figure out what to put in the ECU def's for Bytetronik FA... funny how the story changes.

Besides, there's nearly 1000 maps & settings in the calibration data of a Mini ECU. Some of the most important ones are rather obscure looking.

 

That is not my customer's impression - that's what happened at the AAA Lab. The Sprintex upgrade by itself did NOT pass CARB Testing... get it? After it was mapped with FA, then it passed

 

Haha, that's indeed quite funny. At that time, we had already cracked the MINI ECU and your tuner was not even a tuner yet. He approached Jason about going into business together and buying the Dimsport tool from Emil. That's all ancient history now, and many have moved on... stories change depending on who's telling them... carry on...

 

As, an outsider to this entire argument, I'd like to point out how unprofessional it appears that a vendor is publicly arguing with a potential customer...this shows that the vendor has poor customer service reps and, personally, I would want nothing to do with a company that hires people whom are so easily instigated...

 

Apparently you still don't get it. Re-read my post. I said the job of re-mapping the Mini ECU when swapping one positive displacement supercharger for another isn't a big deal if you know what you're doing. Any of the tuner tools I've seen can do it. Heck you can do it in raw hex if you know what you're doing.

 

I'm simply having a technical debate with someone who disagrees with the merits of our product. If you think that's 'unprofessional', then we disagree on that point as well.

You stated the operational word there... "... instigated".

 

 

hi,
i have a problem with my 2005 mcs r53 ..i did dyno my car before i did the exaust and a remap and with my engine check light 'on', they manage to get 200whp..and so i decided to change the whole exhaust system and fix the o2 sensors( engine check light problem) and a remap..the exhaust i change the whole system from the header..initially was runnig with a 4-1 , and now 4-2-1..i also increased the piping from 2.2" to 2.5"...i lost alomost 9whp..:( other mods i have is nology and iridium spark plug...BMC open port and 15% pulley..


not to forget i have a schrick cam

 

Why did you do that? There is no telling what the ECU/map thought of that.

 

Thank God i manage to solve the problem....the tuner sent me another program to be installed...and after this, its running better, the top speed and the g force feel increased tremendously...cant wait to dyno to see whats the digits on wheels!!!