To cure the heat soak, why don't we put a shroud under the intercooler. Then route it behind the engine and blow it out with a light centrifugal blower down the back of the engine?

being centrifugal it will not hyper spin as the wind enters nor restrict airflow much. it will keep the hot air off the intake runers and plenum.

feedback?

 

I would be afraid it would end up capturing and retaining more heat under the shroud, which inturn would create more heat on the fuel rail and in essence raise the fuel temp.

 

Buy a GP or bigger cooler and thermal coat it, problem solved.

 

keep in mind: there isnt much space under the intercooler.

 

The most effective solution is to make/install a front-mounted intercooler. If you keep it in the current location, best overall bang-for-the-buck combo is the M7 extreme hood scoop and the GP intercooler. Don't forget to paint it black to help dissipate heat even more.

 

A centrifugal blower powered by what? It would have to blow at more than 60+ mph to not be a net obstruction.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrifugal_fan

air will mostly freely pass, besides the air intake is very small. the point is to provide air movement when there is none. to prevent heat soak. cant place any fan on the IC becuase of its location.

front mounted IC is the normal way to solve this. but im under the impression that the increased size of internal air mass will increase lag. i like to keep the airpath short.

 

How would you ensure the fan is turned on/off...workable...but a fan getting driven by air might not last...especially at high speeds...not unsurmountable i guess...
But the ic would need to be lifted ip a bit to created duct space...custom hood...and then find duct space cleat the cv joints, exaust, etc...
i think trying a bigger ic, like a gp, a bigger hood scoop, and maybe a water sprayer or co2 (cryo) is simpler...and effective. You could even use an air switch to turn on the sprayer...no airflow, pump turns on....or just use manual....i am not saying don't try....but the mini has VEY LITTLE space....and a high speed fan would need perhaps a 1/3 hp motor or more...big draw on the electrical system.

 

strait blades would not spin from the incoming air, but will still blow if turned. realy dont need a high speed blower. im talking like a AC blower inside the car. just to push some air.

this is only a brainstorm idea i had. all the stuff like bigger ic, sprays will still work. and yes, i agree it might not fit under the IC. it wuold be very thin, hence restrictive!

 

Well, 4-1/2 hrs later, I know all about how to pull off the front of a MINI, found out that the inventor of plastic push-rivets or whatever those devil spawned inventions are called, should be waterboarded, and the fan idea (2 x 7") was less effective than I had hoped. But Edison tried over 1900 materials before perfecting a usable light bulb, so it doesnt always go zippy.
Yyrd, I did mount in front of the IC, it was a PITA and the bumber sits out a tad more than it did, but they are in and functional, but overall, I think I just have to start saving 62,500 pennies and get a real aftermarket FMIC. The idle speed performance is okay but at speed, really hopping on it just generates more heat than any combo of fans can handle and the temp zooms (temporarily). I went from about 30 to about 85MPH under full boost (top to bottom of an entrance ramp on MD I95S) and went from 71F IAT to 104F+.
BTW, during the install I discovered that the stock radiator fan is shrouded such that it does pull a tiny amount of air through the IC on the drivers side.

BTW, WTF is up with inserting images? grrrrrrrrrrrrr I have some good pix ............

 

wrong section thats an r56.
and it looks like these blowers would hinder air flow more than they help

 

Seems too complicated, why not just cut a hole...

 

I'm a fan of the hole method myself. There is NO room under the stock or GP I/C's or any other lay flat top mount to do what you want. But you could do it to a DFIC with enough fabrication, but you are going to need a leaf blower sized motor to get any noticable differance.

 

if i had one of those FDIC's, i would make a airstream front clip for all those flat zones to make the airflow more slick. just my .02.


anyways all this is dreaming, just got my r53 and have a long way to go before i mess with the IC. need tires now and thinking how to max out the footprint atm.

 

Started my planning for a liquid to air intercooler configuration. Water is 784 times more dense than air (or so I read) and so takes much longer to heat up so an ice-chest or reservoir n radiator config is able to handle long or heavy n intermittent boost temp spikes much more efficiently than an air-to-air. The packaging is also much easier, the "log" flow-through intercooler will fit right where the existing unit is located and the radiator fits in front of the factory A/C unit. I already have the fans and temp sensor mounted and wired so I need to plumb in the parts n fittings then add a circulator pump relay, which already pre-wired for in the event that I would be adding "something" (at the time I was thinking driving lamps).

I would think that a liquid to air for a first gen would be ideal, the intercooler in the stock location and the radiator in front. The plumbing would be ridiculously short and the bleed valve would go on the IC.

And Dr Frankenstein continues ......... (thats pronounced Frahnk-en-steeeen !!!!!!)

 

There have been quite a few company's that have tried to produce W2A I/C's for the 1st gen cars. Some are still around but not many. They turned out to just not be worth the cost for the average buyer. Considering you can get a GP I/C for less than $500, and your average W2A I/C was right around $1500, what one would you choose?

W2A is great, as long as it never heatsoaks, if that happens you are pretty much done for the day if you cant get the water temp down.

 

A water to air setup for the R53 would be better overall. I had a CRX with m45 Jackson Racing Eaton charger. This kit is non intecooled but I doubt an air to air would of made a big difference just like our stock tmic, but I did however upgrade to a custom mulitple Laminova core water to air IC. LHT Performance in Florida fabricated an intake manifold and parts. Before going that route I already had Larry at Endyn port the S tube and other areas of the m45.

The porting resulted in more power and less temps, adding later with the w2a setup dramatically reduced iat and no heat soak after ~20min track sessions. You will not get that with any tmic or dfic on the market unless using a water/meth kit.

 

Water meth works, but it is better backed up by a traditional I/C for when the water isnt spraying. This is a 1/4 mile drag run from my car, when the I/C was already heatsoaked. I do run water injection (no meth the car already runs on 85% alcohol) and have a DFIC with the exit scoop. It was also pushing 90* ambient temp at the track right before a rain storm.

The Yellow line on the log is coolent temp (top of graph) Orange line is the actual recorded intake temp (taken off MAP sensor 2) Blue is air mass (easy to aee gears and RPM) and the red line is speed in MPH.

 

PAImport, I agree w/ you, if your water volume is sufficient and your radiator is sufficient, heatsoak will not be an issue, think about how much heat an auto engine puts out but yet when the tstat opens and the elec colling fan turns on, the temp drops within seconds. And if you really want to go hardcore, an ice chest can give you absurdely low IATs, that no A2A could ever in this universe come close to matching. Just a pure matter of physics.

So theroretically if I could make a W2A kit for the same price as ALTA/Forge/Helix's A2A, who would be in? I guess thats the difference between people who make a living w/ this exclusively (and thats all good, Im not knocking them, they do some very good quality engineering) and those that have a day job as well. $1500 for a kit has to represent quite a markup.

 

If you are serious about reducing air temps then you need to have a look at the whole picture, not just the IC!

First off you neeed to cosider whats heating the intake air up? Now before you all shout "the bl;00dy great supercharger!!!!!" you might be best at looking what else might be having a helping hand in increasing intake temps! First of all is where is the air being picked up form? whats its temp there? is there a cooler source that coould be used?

Next, is anything heating this air up on the way to the SC? if your filter/intake is at the rear of the engine then the underhood heated air WILL be heating the intake air up before its even got to the SC!!!! You might want to look at using some shinny ally tape type stuff to refelct the IR back. Maybe use some Exhaust wrap underneith that to help slow the rate of absorbtion. Try to use compersite or runndber conectors not steel/ally as these absorb heat at a much slower rate.

Afte the throttle body we are now at the SC. THis is obviously where MOST of the heat is added to the intake. SO how can we combat it? We first of all you can try to reduce the SC temps. Try getting some cold air to it. maybe try maskign the SC form the engine with a heat shield. You could look at pre SC water / meth injection. THis acutally helps increase the efficeny of the SC as well as reducing temps. However i think there was soem issues with it effecting the coating.

Form the SC we then go to the Intercooler / chargecooler. From now on you really ahve to start thinking about the surounding s and how they can heat up the air. First off try shielding the IC from the radient heat from the head/cam cover. Then try to get more air to the IC using bigger scoops/inlets. Then you mioght want to think of ways to get the extra air out from the engine bay. You could consider intercooler water sprays as well.

Now you need to again stop the underhood heat form warming the air up again. Wraping and shielding the pipework form the IC to the intake manifold should helo keep intake temps down. You could also look at Meth/water injection as well now.

Finally we are in the intake manifold. Again you need to think about the environment the intake mainfold sits in. Right behind the rad and attached to the engine. Coatings and reflective stuff will again well reduce the absorbtion of heat form the suroundings. Also might want to look into some thermal gaskets. Theese will help stop the manifold form heat soaking form the engine.

Other things to think about is getting the exhaust manifold coated wrapped and maybe even heat shielded. Also look at getting the hot air around the exhaust / engine out of the engine bay.

Basically you are looking to keep the hot things hot, the cold things cold and ways to get the hot air cold again. Simple! lol

Chris.

 

If you want to make one for yourself then more power to ya, but it all really becomes irrelevant once you throw water/meth on. I applaud you for thinking outside the box, but I gotta stand by the good old motto of "K.I.S.S."

Get a larger FMIC (Helix or Forge), install water/meth (preferrably an Aquamist)...run a big jet & high concentration of meth. You will wonder why you even wasted your time trying to figure out making a cheap W2A (or attaching fans to the stock ic....)

 

I was running jets from 3-5GPH with almost straight water, and a 7GPH with a strong alcohol mix.

After the rebuild I'm doing 5 1GPH jets in a multiport setup (One in each runner, and one pre Sprintex.) and will play with the mix a little more. Still keeping the DFIC, it works for me.

 

Your FMIC and aquamist cost almost double the amount than a custom w2a I could have fab'd up, I just can't believe the price of FMICs kits that do not include hardpipes for theprice. Bigger isn't better on SC setup in this area, not only do you lose a bit of pressure you also get a bit of lag no matter what FI. The aquamist will require constant maintenance to fill, especially under my lead foot. Since I have a 4 person family I'm not giving up my seats or hatch area for a 5 gal unit either. The KISS does not equate to your setup even being an R56 which we are talking about R53 here. An air diverter, fresh ram air, reflective tape and intake wrapping would be KISS.

W2a setup with heat exchnager in bumper with dual fans running off a temp switch is virtually maintenance free and very consistent. It's not just thinking outside the box, it's very possible and pretty much common sense.

Like most I'm not going to pay high dollar for mediocre bolt-on solutions that don't perform. If I upgrade my IC it's going to be w2a as nothing on the market for the R53 in a2a warrants $800+ and also given the space available it is ideal

turbo = a2a, blower = w2a, if high hp = w2a

 

By the time you got done reading this and trial and error on the above with lots of money spent over a period of time. You could of got a nice w2a made in half the time for a little more $$, that would outperform all that. Sorry but I appreciate you trying to break it down.

 

You are right! a CC will probably reduce temps further than any of the above mentioned by me. However all the above WILL help keep the intake temps lower no matter if you are using a CC or an intercooler!

Also I am not one for band aid solutions. Tackle the problems and you will have a MUCH better solution in the long run.

If you are after a FMIC or a CC then take a look at these.

http://www.grsmotorsport.co.uk/minichargecoolermk2.html

http://www.grsmotorsport.co.uk/r53frontmount.html

Chris.