When i read about the comparisons of the JCW vs Hartge, AMD, and others, they all say the JCW feels more solid. A better complete package. Meaning the sound, and feel, the ride, and i contribute this to the headwork they have done vs the others that have not, but give you the same hp cheaper. Maybe i am wrong. Maybe i couldn't explain this well, but i have talked about this before, that i wanted my car to run the most efficient. Have also seen someone write that porting could help a lot. Basically i dont have a ton of money to blow, but if headwork would really put everything together than maybe i would do it. Your thoughts

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You can see the mis match if you were to pull the header pipe and intake. Bill Gude creater of the Bullfrog Product line, does all of our machine work. He said he was able to increase flow by over 30%.

For the exhaust it was the flange that was off by a 1/4 inch in places. I was real surprised. But, then again when I first saw the restriction in the header pipe I was not that surprised.


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quote from diamini

 

wow, 50 views and not one opinion? bummer.

 

i upgrade from 15 to 19% pulley last month. I would bet that the extra power by the 19% pulley makes more power than a polished head AND exhaust header combined. I don't know tons about this stuff but it seems that none of the exhaust headers OR "polished" heads do a whole lot for power. From what I understand, to make power out of a head you have to do a more in-depth and expensive job than just "polishing" it. If the JCW really is "smoother" than the aftermarkets, I'd bet it has to do with a "smoother" ECU. Afterall, MINI and JCW have full access to the ECU code so I would imagine their upgraded ECU could easily be the smoothest. So if I were you I'd forget about the head and seriously consider the 17 or 19% pulley and the upcoming GIAC ECU. I'd be willing to bet $ that the GIAC will turn this MINI into something very special and not just add some smoothness.

 

Well i am the conservative type so i dont imagine i'll be swapping my 15% pulley for a 19% one anytime soon. that really is the whole point behind my questions. I want to feel confident about my upgrades and from the quote above it seemed that the engine could really benefit from porting. The 19% pulley scares the heck out of me. Why do you think everyone went with 15? I want to get the GIAC or an equivalent and probably an exhaust as soon as the prices come down a bit. (and some springs, swaybar, new tires, but that is off the subject)

I guess my goal is to have about 210hp (not wheel hp) while it still being my everyday driver and not feeling like i am risking anything in the process.

For instance, the Hartge MINI S is over 200 hp but I got the impression that it was screaming more and didn't seem as complete or reliable as the JCW which i could never afford or want to spend.

 

Randy is here in the Bay Area this weekend, and I spent the last 9 or so hours chatting with him about a full gamut of MINI mods, including a topic that he brought-up - the head. I'd recommend contacting him to get the details, but as explained to me, with some extensive and pain-staking work that might cost near $2k, 10 hp is possible. A cost/benefit analysis for many will probably reveal this not to be a worthwhile pursuit. Yet for others in search of squeezing-out all they can...

 

Along with the pulley and ECU upgrades, a really well designed and excecuted job of upgrading the heads on an MCS would be a very good match. However the cost as stated as about $2000 (very realistic) IS high because there is no guarantee that the HP gains will be much above 5 HP-and maybe 10HP as Randy estimates. It's really hard to tell because the finished product is not available for testing from an independent source.

So lets say the final head mod yields a 6HP (pretty realistic) gain and costs $1999. That is 1.5 HP per $499 or so. Is it worth it?
Probably not to the average MCS owner. This doesn't look like the first mod an owner should consider. In fact a larger intercooler is a better investment by comparison.

 

>>I guess my goal is to have about 210hp (not wheel hp) while it still being my everyday driver and not feeling like i am risking anything in the process.

I beleive thats were I would draw the line on my Mini. Any additional work would be soley dedicated to suspension, breaks or anything that would help with weight reduction (without having to gut the car). Look I love performance mods, believe me I've spent plenty on my other sports cars. But, there is a point of diminishing returns with any vehicle. The Mini is a realy fun car to drive, it's a blast on tight corners and if it's well driven with a 210HP power plant I bet it's orgasmic. I can see doing some work on the heads (polish & hotter cam with right ECU mods to match). But lately I have seen some real Frankestein stuff for the Mini, specially as it relates to upgrades of the Supercharger. Sure, there might be a hedonistic dilitante with unlimited fund who would try a crazy mod "just for the hell of it". But, not me I got bills to pay and I would like to drive my car everyday.


Cheers

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2004 MCS Indi Blue /W Sport, Lapis blue interior - Stock for now, but not for long.

 

The guy working on my head has major experience from Nascar to Honda, has built his own custom flow benches and engine dyno. check out his comments. His basic head package runs $900; add $300 for larger exhaust valves, up to a max of $1600 for each port flowed to within 5%. I don't know where these $2,000 prices are coming from

http://www.theoldone.com/forum/topic...mp;whichpage=1


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""the onus of proof is on he who asserts the positive."

 

>>>>I guess my goal is to have about 210hp (not wheel hp) while it still being my everyday driver and not feeling like i am risking anything in the process.
>>
>>I beleive that were I would draw the line on my Mini. Any additional work would be soley dedicated to suspension, breaks or anything that would help with weight reduction (without having to gut the car). Look I love performance mods, believe me I've spent plenty on my other sports cars. But, there is a point of diminishing returns with any vehicle. The Mini is a realy fun car to drive, it's a blast on tight corners and if it's well driven with a 210HP power plant I bet it's orgasmic. I can see doing some work on the heads (polish & hotter cam with right ECU mods to match). But lately I have seen some real Frankestein stuff for the Mini, specially as it relates to upgrades of the Supercharger. Sure, there might be a hedonistic dilitante with unlimited fund who would try a crazy mod "just for the hell of it". But, not me I got bill to pay and I would like to drive my car everyday.
>>
>>
>>Cheers

Good point there InfoSec

Guess I got to wait a long time for this because the MOD is not getting any cheaper soon.
:evil:

 

That' more inline with what I have been seeing, from speed shops I trust. I would say that litening the valve train with Sodium filled valves might be a good option. I would limit the over-size of valves there is a point that they begin to affect the streetablity and idle of the vehicle. Flow matching is very important, but a tollerance 5% is tight. The benefits of a good Head setup is felt through the entire power band.

Cheers

 

>>The guy working on my head has major experience from Nascar to Honda, has built his own custom flow benches and engine dyno. check out his comments. His basic head package runs $900; add $300 for larger exhaust valves, up to a max of $1600 for each port flowed to within 5%. I don't know where these $2,000 prices are coming from

I think that the $2000 price is realistic as a top end. Not all of us live in an area where we have access to your sort of shop. I'm in Hawaii and so I would have to ship my head to your shop and ship it to Hawaii. Shipping is costly about $1-2+ per pound. I'm told there are a few local shops that will do the work for a MINI but prices for head work can be high which reflects the high cost of doing business in Hawaii (higher rents and taxes).

An estimate of $1500 to $2000 doesn't seem out of line. If you can do it for less then great.
The Mini Mania head is about $1900 retail.

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Mele Kalikimaka & Hau'oli Makahiki Hou!

 

I realize the shipping pia with hawaii...my son lives on Maui. I had to ship my head from NY to Texas. I think the price differential is because Minimania, for example, has no shop. Instead, they send it to someone, pay the $900-1,200 and then mark it up.

 

Yeah, the head has a lot to do with the ride.
I think part of it is that the JCW uses stock suspension parts that are designed to give a good solid feel vs. parts that are more strictly designed with performance in mind and may be less concerned about drivability and a solid feel. The sound is likely because the JCW uses also a calmer, non-boomy exhast, and the stock airbox instead of an open intake that allows more of the SC scream to get into the cabin.

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Visit Vince's MINI page

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I think weaverpsu has a good point, although I'm not very savvy when it comes to engine tuning, to be honest, other than playing around with some simple stuff on me olde 73 MGB-GT.

as weaver mentioned, many review laude the JCW for the smoothness and completeness. The replies of quite a few folks to that statement were along the lines of 'cost of headwork' and 'not cost-efficient in terms of power gains'. In a way, that's not the point though. I agree, it sounds like in terms of power gains head work may not be the best way to go. However, there is power and then there is power. With my lay person perspective I could imagine that power delivery and breathing could be smoother in a ported and flowed engine, even compared to another engine that might have more power, and might have gotten it for less money.

I still think that head work is something to consider. What I would try to do is get my hands on a JCW head from a junk car, if that is at all possible.

 

My Mini is now around the range you were talking about (210hp) and it was easy and relitively inexpensive...where I suffer now is on the noise level...the Alta intake is very loud (although good) so when you say you want you car to run as efficiently as possible, you might want to keep it stock. With mods you gain hp, maybe lose some weight, gain noise, lose fuel effeciency, gain fun, lose some money, spank some cars worth 5 times the price of your car, gain some smiles, shed some tears etc...
I decided to go with Supersprint headers (which need to be whelded onto the original cat if you decide NOT to fork out 1k for a race cat or straight tube) and I've heard negative comments about it from some tuners, but bottom line is we saw a 5hp gain on the dynojet and the previous day was colder (meaning the 5hp gain was more like a 7-10hp gain)

I'm not sure about polishing heads etc... but I heard from some people that it didn't do anything to the performance of the car...

L

 

well as you can see in my sig, i already have the Madness Intake and I am relatively happy with it, along with the alta pulley.

so do I. lets see if we can get some more replies.