so i've got the replacement for my current car (mazdaspeed protege with a t3/t04e ) down to a RX-8 and a MINI S. two totally different beasts - theres a lot of things i like about the mini, but unfortunately there are things i dislike as well. im hoping some mods will take care of some of it... so im doing reading and figuring out what i would do.

to start with - the S i test drove today almost felt like it was a turbo... massive hesitation until about 3200 RPM. i almost forgot i was driving a S/C car. once it caught up to 3500 RPM it came to life and took off. i previously owned a 3.8 S/C Grand prix and know thats not how a S/C car is supposed to feel. so really want to remedy that if im going to go forward with a mini.

from what ive gathered so far, with a nights worth of research...
strip down the intake and replace with a cone is a no-brainer. i dont feel like shelling out the cash for a CAI if a gutted airbox is an option. a pulley also seems to be a good step one (15% probably). some sort of PCM flash looks smart, (i see RMW and GIAC tossed around a lot), and im not sure how vital an exhaust is.

i guess my questions are mainly related to the tune.
whatever i go with, i want to be totally reversible, and be able to do it again without having to pay a second time if my battery is disconnected or my PCM gets flashed by the dealership for whatever reason.
so - whats a good way to go as far as a flash goes? is there a flash tool that can just put a general 15/17% reduction map onto the ECU? as for the RMW tune, how does that work? is it exclusively dyno tuning, or will they send me a "stage 1" ECU and i send mine to get a core charge refund? (common with the grand prix.) i see they also have a flash tool but i know nothing about it... does it include a remote tune, and is it reusable?
what about the GIAC unit - did they ever release the cable to make it user-flashable, or do i have to go to an authorized dealer to get it flashed every time? and does anyone with experience with both methods have a preference?

as for the exhaust - is this a really good "gain per dollar" option on minis, or would i be better off spending the money on something like a rear swaybar? i dont care much about how different exhausts sound, i just care about performance, and if im going to drop bank for a good exhaust i better see 10-15hp... haha...

and last... i realize this is the wrong section... what the hell is with the weird plastic "brushed aluminum-effect" trim? i would want that painted to match the body, or painted silver, or something... fresh outta the mold it looks horrible... how hard is it to remove and replace all of it?

thanks for all your help - hope i didnt come off as too much of a newb.

 

76 views and no answers? help me out guys!

 

Check back after you actually have a Mini and you may get some replies. The Mini is the right choice.

 

that doesnt sound biased at all...

i tried that with my protege though, and got more than i bargained for. getting the whp up on that car gets very expensive - much more so than the MCS. just looking to make sure i have a good plan before i put the first ~10k into it.

 

wow, crazy there is no replies, the 15% pulley would help down low, but I went with a 17 and had jan, RWM, tune my car, now I have really usable power down low, like a SC car should. remember these are 1.6l engines, SOHC, pretty low tech stuff, but with the right power (my goal was 200, i've now exceeded that) these are some quick cars.

also consider the ammount of money spent on my mods are less that $1k and I got about 30-40 horse and tq out of them. the kind of power available for the money is not easy to compare with other cars.

if you're consider an rx-8, have you driven one? I have and it feels numb and the power seems finicky. with very few mods to my car ive created something far more fun and COMMUNICATIVE. I think that is very important.

hope you go mini and dont get turned off by someone telling you to buy before we'll talk to you.

 

also, the trim all pops out easily, there are lots of places on here to search to see how easy it is. this car was well engineered to come apart (even the engine just pops out...

 

yeah the power per dollar ratio seems really strong... among the best. your numbers look good, and im thrilled to see you got there without an exhaust.
im still lost with jan tuning the car... are there any other good options aside from dyno tuning? like i mentioned, something user-flashable would be ideal.
its also nice that you dont need a piggyback to get a little better response from the motor... flashable ECU > piggyback. im sure i dont have to tell you guys about unichip...

i drove an RX-8, yeah, and i loved every minute of it. not as much low-end as i wanted but the delivery was silk. very responsive... and once it got to like 3800 RPM it just went - pulled really hard all the way to the 9000 redline. i wonder if you drove one with a bad apex seal or a fouled set of plugs... the older AT's also had a pretty lax motor and some of the PCM flashes mazda issued were kind of duds. everyone seems happy with the latest though. the only reason i havent gotten one yet is im not sure what i think of 18mpg and burning 1-2 quarts of oil between changes.

 

IMO I love the Mini, but it REALLY comes down to what you want out of the car.

Both cars are awesome, and have their place, and each have their problems.

The hesitation is normal, even though it does have a S/C, it is small and so is the motor. Your GP, had twice the torque a Mini does, and that translates a lot to power delivery. Cam options help this, as does a Detroit Tuned by-pass valve.

Flash Tune: Keep your options to RMW, Mynes Tuning (not completely sure they released there module yet), and also Wayland @ waymotorworks.com. All of those would entail an actual handheld device that general saves your tune for you. Also, most of the flash tunes, maps are sent back and forth via email, so worst case scenario you would have the file in your email.

Most of the trim on the dash and around the cupholders just pops off. But that also depends on the year concerning the dash. (3pc or 5pc) On the door cards, the trim is not removable, but you can just remove the whole thing so you can tape it all up and paint it that way. There may be a way to remove that trim, but i suspect it takes melting away some of the "welded" contact point on the back side of the card.

Go test drive a rx8, and then decide. The RS3 package is beautiful IMO.

And try to ignore the self entitled and completely unjustified arrogance that goes rampant surrounding the MINI.

GL !!

 

MANY MINI'S will already have mods....get your car...then determine what needs to be done!!
Folks here are very helpful....but there is a search feature too....this question has been asked 100's of times....
And you will get the ECU TUNED IN THE CAR....on the Dino...the best way x100. Canned tunes are iffy...and there is so many different combo's in MINI's and so many different options....put your mods on...then get a tune. It will run great!

 

hmmm... i did make a post about a few things - including my experience driving the RX-8, but it seems like it got lost in posting... do new members have to get posts approved or something?
[edit: quick reply works, but seems like full reply doesnt. what the heck - now i have to retype my whole message]

 

im thrilled to see that an ECU tune, a S/C pulley, and a gutted airbox will get me close to 200whp. glad i don't have to do exhaust to get there - a good exhaust (even components like headers) are double the cost of a pulley and tune.

i did test drive an RX-8 and loved every minute of it. if you thought it was numb, im immediately thinking the one you drove had a bad apex seal, fouled plugs, or was an older ATX. my experience couldnt be further from yours, once it got moving to 3800 RPM the power delivery was outstanding. its not a V6 but it was much more consistent and fluid than any four cylinder. pulled hard all the way to redline @ 9000 too. but plenty of issues with those cars is really putting me on the fence.

 

yeah, the GP was not short in the torque department. obviously a 3.8 DOHC V6 is different than a 1.6 I4, but i figured the S/C would still give more consistent power below 3500 RPM. it was really like a switch - once it hit 3500 it was like the boost suddenly came on.
i saw some people who said its the tune, and i saw something else that said the DBW system doesnt like to go to WOT unless you're over 30mph. whats the general consensus on that, and if its the DBW, can that be fixed in a PCM tune/flash?

and i definitely have homework to do on the flash options. but if i go see jan, is the car tuned, and then i have to buy a flash tool if i want to keep it stored and flash it again? or is a dyno/remote tune included with the tool...? im just really confused when people say "i got a tune from jan for $350" when the tool is 300.

and there is no way i would do a cam, and im a little confused - how does upgrading the BPV help with pickup? is there bad leakage or a high failure rate on the stock unit?

 

this makes a lot of sense. there are quite a few options for sure - and i havent found a car that has all the ones i want yet... i have been looking to see how stock the cars are - none of the ones ive seen have any intakes or anything that looks different from stock.

 

In comparison I found the rx8 lacking in road feel, its an amazing car with huge potential, I don't know what turbo kits cost for it, but I'm sure that would prefer to go in that direction. Also I know the older rotaries needed frequent rebuilding, the renesis may not, but just a thought.

Mazda is a great brand, I just don't have the same connection to their cars as I do with mini/BMW, some call it soul, and if any Japanese co comes close its Mazda, especially the rx8 and mazdaspeed cars, and Miata.

Hard decision, but also a good one to get to make.

 

the handling on the mini is definitely sharper than the 8. hell, it was sharper than my protege (one of the mazdaspeeds by the way), and some people test driving my car already found it twitchy.
the 8, unfortunately, is not immune to the apex seal issues of the 7. it gets worse with boost (not that i could afford it), but even then its not as bad as the 7... it floods more often though. fortunately, mazda extended the warranty on all bearings and seals to 8yr or 100k on all the 8's - thats the only reason theyre still in the running.
and while i hear ya with the soul of a car, the protege definitely felt like "mine". by the time you get to the end of doing bolt-ons, it definitely feels like yours because youve seen it go from a car with massive drivetrain movement, massive hesitation, and other goofy issues to a car that feels planted, rock solid mechanically, and fast.
im not looking to do that with the mini though... the protege was a major time ***** (it was "fussy") and im hoping this car will be a little more turnkey. engine replacements arent exactly turnkey obviously, but im sure the mini has some reliability hot-spots too. just gotta read more.

 

The hesitation in the car you tested might have been caused or made worse by many things...sticky bypass valve, old plugs, ac running, heatsoaked IC, even an older software version...down low, most mini's do lack grunt...but with a pulley, the boost kicks in lower, and it feels much better.
Unless you can find a very well cared for modded car, an unmolested mini might be a good deal...heck, many folks remove mods and sell them...one mod that cannot really be undone is the pulley mod...stock is a black heat pressed one, most aftermaket ones used bolts and a collet style fastener.
The exaust is not too bad in the mini...but for 10 hp, IMO it is still worth it...some $500 sound fine...the "one ball" resonator delete mod is a great deal...cost about $50 in labor+a pair of welds...gets about 50% of the aftermaket performance (guess) for maybe 1/10 or less the cost...nicer exhausts run about $1000.
Choice of cams, just like choice of pulley depends on how/where you drive...but you might just get 200 without a cam with an exaust and a tune...depends, the motors vary tons...cabrio's seem to Dino best...same motor, but just an observation...they do weigh more, so the hardtop, no sunroof will be lighter...better cg too...the mini sunroof is almost too big...and the mesh screen is kinds thin..let's in tons of light+heat.
You will never likely find 2 gen1 mini's that are the same option wise...most were custom ordered/optioned months in advance.
Be sure to get a prebuy inspection from a good mini centric shop...they know the quirks in mini's. Also motoring file has a great buyers guide with changes and issues year by year...
Good luck!!!

 

excellent advice. i didnt realize that the stock pulley was heat-pressed onto the SC. guess thats not reversible, but i also doubt most people would see the difference anyways.
200 is not a hard and fast goal, more like a guideline. really not looking to set a true goal with this car, just trying to get rid of that hesitation as much as anything. heatsoak is a possible candidate (this is sounding more like the mazda already), but im not upgrading the IC for sure.

and im definitely planning to get a car thats bone stock. the previous owner on my mazda did a terrible job putting it back to stock and well lesson learned.

 

stock flywheel rx-8 power
Horsepower 232 hp @ 8500 rpm
Torque (lb-ft) 159 lb-ft @ 5500 rpm

not fair, i cant rev that high!!

looks like there is quite a bit of drivetrain loss according to the stock dyno charts here: http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=77031

you're also looking at a rear wheel drive car in the mazda, I do have to concede to that. no comparison.

no need for a new intercooler(correcting A/F with RMWtune fixed most loss from heatsoak, ie, cant feel it), besides, any of them that are worth a darn are expensive as hell.(http://www.mini-madness.com/madness-...tercooler.aspx)

I actually drive with a mazdaspeed3 (same engine you have) and it's fun and fast, but for some reason i lose him in the twisties...

what area are you looking in?

 

haha MS protege and MS 3 have nothing in common except "MS" and shitty engine mounts. im a 2.0, they're a 2.3... im 5MT, theyre 6MT... im garrett (well turbonetics now) theyre IHI... etc. theyre really, really nice cars, and have an engine that is much better suited to medium-high WHP goals. but - insurance is literally double what i pay, mileage is worse, and they werent limited run like the protege. they also cant handle for beans next to the MSP, or the mini. im not surprised you lose him in the twisties, the MS3 is not a slalom car.

anywho - the RX-8 is a true GT car which would be really, really nice. i never thought id own a car id call "GT" with less than 70k miles on it at this point. so yeah, a nice ride, but something as stupid as a lack of fold-flat seats might be a deal breaker. the mini is way more practical, doesnt deliberately burn oil, doesnt have extensive engine problems, better mileage... etc.

back to the subject at hand - does anyone have suggestions for a couple threads to read to increase my general knowledge - especially on tuning options? ive found a few but always up for more.

 

all you need to know:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ercharger.html

 

well i just read that - not exactly the kind of tuning knowledge im looking for... im looking more for "how do the different PCM tuners work" and pros and cons. im researching the BPV right now.

 

as far as ECU tuning, I dont know of any other car that you can get a really good custom tune for $350(plus dyno time of course). Only RMW, Jan is the best, and the only guy i'd trust with this sort of thing, I showed you that post because he is the one building that monster

most off the shelf tunes advance timing and throw fuel in, could be very bad for these cars depending on the setup.

Jan also offers a shark type thing where he will store your stock tune and other tunes so you can switch between them. it's extra of course, but an incredible deal considering you cant custom tune most other cars for under $700.

GIAC-meh, no.
Shark- great for any NA BMW, not a mini, no.
Uni-chip-again, dump fuel, advance timing, no.

WaymotorWorks also does a custom tune i believe with a "remote module", he's probably the only other one worth looking into.

 

I would have gotten an RX-8 over the MINI if it weren't for the horrible gas mileage. Other then that, it's a fantastic car. My brother had one and the handling, chassis, motor are just awesome and it's a true 4 seater. But he sold it because he had a long commute and the gas mileage sucked.

So I got a 2005 Mini S and I'm very happy. A few mods. Pulley, intake, and some suspension stuff.

- andrew

 

i'm dumb. double post.

 

OK - thanks for the advice. if I go with a mini, i'll be sure to get in touch with one of them, and hopefully they will be able to help me out a little better. i'm not thrilled that the flash module is fairly expensive (seemingly, on top of the tune and dyno time), so maybe i'll leave that out. but - as long as i have a backup of my tune somewhere, id be willing to fork out the cash for a little dyno time and someone as knowledgeable as jan's expertise.

still on the fence on this one - started posting on the RX8club today to see if they can alleviate my fears on rotary. you definitely get a lot more car for the money, but i guess not without its risks. i can get a RX-8 GT w/ nav package for about 10k. thats loaded - leather, heated/power seats, premium sound, the works. a sweeeeet ride - and it would be faster, less to insure, less to repair, and have less miles than a $10k mini s. and the engine would still be under warranty... for another 2 years anyways haha. worse mileage and oil consumption? easy to ignore right now, dunno what id say after a month if i go that route.