I'm thinking about this down the road. If they both use the Pentagon engine.........Could this be done with relative ease? I'm guessing that there are probably a ton of 150hp and 132hp neon engines out in the junk yards just waiting for this kind of swap.

What do you think? More Tourque.....More HP.

 

The pentagon is only used in the neon in europe.

--
Cheese

 

"The pentagon is only used in the neon in europe."

>>Cheese

Hmmmm, maybe I should have known that but none the less, I do now. I guess that means this swap would be a little more complicated then I previously thought. I still wonder how similar these two engines are.

Does anyone know? Thanks,

Stuart

 

>>I'm thinking about this down the road.

>>What do you think? More Tourque.....More HP.

The better alternative is to consider a big bore 1.8 or 2.0 liter engine.
Call Randy Webb at Webbmotorsport and ask him when these will be ready.
He's posted earlier about having these available in the future.

What do you have? MC or MCS?

 

"The better alternative is to consider a big bore 1.8 or 2.0 liter engine.
Call Randy Webb at Webbmotorsport and ask him when these will be ready.
He's posted earlier about having these available in the future."

you are dreaming if you think there is potential for a "big bore" option. You have to stroke the crank by 5/8" to get to 2 liters; the block won't support more than a .040" overbore. Randy was hoping for the big bore, but actual block measurements have proven otherwise.

 

You certainly don't want the US 2.0L Neon engines. They're garbage. My wife had one and it needed so much darn engine work before 30k miles! Not to mention it was the most underpowered engine I've ever come across. And trust me, my wife didn't run the engine hard either. I wouldn't touch any part of a Neon. I realize every car has its bad apples so that's just me and my opinion.

 

I would suggest that you consider getting a Ford SVT Focus Engine if you want to try a swap. The SVT focus uses the same transmission as the MCS 6spd. It's a 2.0L, 170hp normally aspirated 16 valve DOHC cam engine. Would be best to find a wrecked one and pull the engine, but you can also get the Ford Crate Engine 2.0 DOHC ZETEC engine for $2,500 from Ford Racing. It's only 130hp stock but could easily be upgraded to much more HP than the MINI 1.6L engine is capable of.

I know alot of engineering went into making the MINI engine as small as possilble, so I don't know if any other 1.8L or 2.0L engine would fit without a big hammer and a torch.

 

>>You certainly don't want the US 2.0L Neon engines. They're garbage.

Really. My brother drives my dads hand-down '95 ACR. 200k+ miles with extensive autox use early in its life. In its day, the Neon was unbeatable. Rule changes and regulations plus withdrawn corporate support, its still faster than most Hondas and Yotas on the track. Since its racing days, it been driven pretty hard by my 19 yr old bro. Runs great. The Chrysler engine is a very admirable piece of machinary I'm happy to have carried over in my MINI's engine.

I'm more skeptical about the future French models durability.

 

>>The better alternative is to consider a big bore 1.8 or 2.0 liter engine.
>>Call Randy Webb at Webbmotorsport and ask him when these will be ready.
>>He's posted earlier about having these available in the future.
>>
>>What do you have? MC or MCS?


I have a base Mini Cooper with SSP, sports seats and 16" wheels......

The only reason I would go with this engine would be if the swap was farily clean. If the U.S. Neon uses a similar block to the MINI with similar mounting points then I think it could make a pretty neat package......Yeah, right now it's just a thought but as a base MINI Cooper owner I would love to build the ultimate normally aspirated sleeper......AKA "S" killer....

Stuart

 

>>I have a base Mini Cooper with SSP, sports seats and 16" wheels......
>>
>>The only reason I would go with this engine would be if the swap was farily clean. If the U.S. Neon uses a similar block to the MINI with similar mounting points then I think it could make a pretty neat package......Yeah, right now it's just a thought but as a base MINI Cooper owner I would love to build the ultimate normally aspirated sleeper......AKA "S" killer....

Why are you trying to be an "S" killer? First of all they are your brothers and second of all they might have the pulley/ECU/header/exhaust upgrades and look pretty stealthy.

If you want power to spare and the larger 1.8 and 2 liter engines don't fit then turbo is an option.
Lightweight rims and sticky tires help alot.

 

>Why are you trying to be an "S" killer? First of all they are your brothers and second of all they might have the pulley/ECU/header/exhaust upgrades and look pretty stealthy.
>>
>>If you want power to spare and the larger 1.8 and 2 liter engines don't fit then turbo is an option.


Not trying to be an "S" killer.......Just looking for the ultimate sleeper. I like the "S" but bought the base because no one expects it to be fast. I drive in the City a lot and find the gearing and normally aspirated engine to my liking. That's not to say I wouldn't like a little more power. I just want to take another route then forced induction.

>>Lightweight rims and sticky tires help alot.


Yeah, they do........I already have the buttery soft Monza's wrapped in Kuhmo Ecstas for autocross......

Stuart

 

>>>>You certainly don't want the US 2.0L Neon engines. They're garbage.
>>
>>Really. My brother drives my dads hand-down '95 ACR. 200k+ miles with extensive autox use early in its life. In its day, the Neon was unbeatable. Rule changes and regulations plus withdrawn corporate support, its still faster than most Hondas and Yotas on the track. Since its racing days, it been driven pretty hard by my 19 yr old bro. Runs great. The Chrysler engine is a very admirable piece of machinary I'm happy to have carried over in my MINI's engine.
>>
>>I'm more skeptical about the future French models durability.
I totaly agree!

 

>>Not trying to be an "S" killer.......Just looking for the ultimate sleeper. I like the "S" but bought the base because no one expects it to be fast.
Actually the MC is plenty fast at speeds less than 50 mph so in the city both MC and MCS do about the same. Sure the MCS is a tad quicker but just a bit and it depends on the driver at those speeds. Under 40 the two cars are the same-you might have the push the MC a bit more but the performance is there.

Down the road you can think about the following at some point if you like (for added power):
ECU- right now the options are not that good but hopefully someone will come out with a good MC upgrade with a gain of about 6 to 9 HP realistically plus add smoothness to the throttle.
Exhaust header- Mini Mania with sport cat seems the best fit but it is costly at $750 and adds about 5 HP.
Pilo ignition upgrade-coil, wires, plugs. Aids in smoothness.
DINAN upgrade for MC- stay tuned, might be released as early as March 04.

>>Yeah, they do........I already have the buttery soft Monza's wrapped in Kuhmo Ecstas for autocross......

OK your wheels are good. For suspension, do you have an aftermarket rear swaybar? If not consider the H-sport 22mm with three hole settings (start with the center hole). That will allow you a more neutral feel through corners at speed.

Have fun.

 

Why swap the engine...just get a turbo! You can spend $10k on headers, CAI, Exhaust, Chips, DINAN Garbage, Etc and still not aquire the 50+ HP a Turbo can get you. You get the most HP for the $ you spend with a turbo kit.

 

ribanez:
i think the turbo on an S motor is very attractive (a la Promini), but you are looking at $5000 installed. A much, much better deal than the JCW, but the mods you suggest don't come to $10,000, more like $3.000. as far as HP/$, the pulley gets you 15hp/$400, compared to the turbo: 50hp/$5000. I'd do the turbo anyway...it is a killer.

 

I appreciate everyones advice but it looks as if no one really knows the answer to my question......The whole idea behind this post was to see if the U.S. version Neon uses as similar "pentagon" style engine block that is in the MINI.......

Turbo's are great but I really haven't seen a clean kit for the Cooper. Besides, if I was going to do a Turbo I think I would rather just modify an "S". Oh well, I'll do some more research and see if I come up with anything. For now I am happy with the little 1.6 and would be a little timid about hacking up the engine bay anyway......A year down the road, I might be whistling a different tune.......

 

The other risk you have in putting a larger engine up front is weight distribution. One of the Mini's claims to fame (besides appearance) is it's good handling. If you were to put a larger engine up front, if could effect the weight distribution/balance. Hence, the handling

Also, a different engine (exsp. if it mounts differently), could be risky in a crash. As the manufacturer designs the engine to breakaway a certain way and such in an impact...

My $.02 (devalued for poor exchange rates), -Matt

 

Not only can you not put a US neon motor in a MINI, I doubt that you could put a European Nion motor in a MINI. Maybe, but I doubt it.

THe bigest problem with getting a motor to fit in the MINI in the first place, you see, was getting a shallow enough front-back measurement to allow for crumple zones. BMW had to go back and forth with Chrystler to get it done, and in order to do it, they had to put all the periferals (water pump, ac compressor, alternator, etc) on the same side (front) of the engine. That is going to be your stumbling block. So even if you were to do it, I think it'd probably be a rather intensive re-working of whatever the donor motor happened to be.

cheers

_________________
Lean, Mean, British Green, MINI Cooper 'S' Machine!

(G.I.R.)

 

>>Not only can you not put a US neon motor in a MINI, I doubt that you could put a European Nion motor in a MINI. Maybe, but I doubt it.
>>
>>THe bigest problem with getting a motor to fit in the MINI in the first place, you see, was getting a shallow enough front-back measurement to allow for crumple zones. BMW had to go back and forth with Chrystler to get it done, and in order to do it, they had to put all the periferals (water pump, ac compressor, alternator, etc) on the same side (front) of the engine. That is going to be your stumbling block. So even if you were to do it, I think it'd probably be a rather intensive re-working of whatever the donor motor happened to be.
>>

Great information........That's what I was looking for. I had my doubts to begin with but knew very little about the design of the MINI engine. Thanks,

Stuart