Hey everyone,

So I've got a set of 380 JCW injectors in my Mini, and will be having a tune done by Jan the Man next month.

I've heard a lot of people talk about the stock injectors running lean with more and more engine mods added, and going to the 380's just made sense. Well now I've got even more mods, and am no doubt pushing more HP. I'm thinking eventually down the road, getting the Jesus (RMW) Head and a header. Just had an RMW cam put in several weeks ago, and I love it.

So at what point do the 380's become maxed out? I want to be prepared for what potentially awaits my Mini down the road. lol

 

My educated guess is about 210 hp....and I'm thinking with you list...you will surpass that pretty quickly!
I'm thinking from seeing that list the 440's or even the 550's will be needed for best power...I'm thinking you will be able to sell the injectors...maybe even at the event! Just drive there on the 380's, intall the bigger ones, tune, then sell the 380's...you might even almost break-even.
That will make getting the bigger injectors in very easy! I can't wait to see it! Sounds like it will be an awsome car!!

 

My brain was thinking much the same thing as far as power and mods were concerned, that I was getting close to that tipping point. Now that you say that, I think snagging the 440's may be a wise idea, as I'm not sure if I want to do the tune, then get new injectors, and have to do another tune later. Or keep the 380's, tune, and then later add the head & header...and then I start running lean, which I'd rather avoid altogether. Thanks for the advice mang.

As far as the tune goes, it should be an awesome time, very much looking forward to it, and looking forward to Scott's review after he gets back from Helix. That entire end-of-May weekend will be fun too, tune on Wednesday, day off Thursday, Red Sox game on Friday, and Iron Man 2 over the weekend. Weeeeeeeeeeeee!!!

So it looks like you're on the dyno in front of me in Norwich. Very cool. Can't wait to see Jan work on our rides!

 

One thing to consider...the. 550's are the same $$, and they will give you the option of runing e-85 someday...and since you are going to be making more hp...especially with the meth kit, it might give you more flexilibility...maybe have the flash tool, and then you can pay Jan and do "adjustments" remotely...that way you can even have a tune more with meth, one without too!
Heck, the options are only limited by your wallet!!
One thing...the. 550's are avalable in 2 seperate set-ups...traditional. 4 hole, and a newer 6 hole (or maybe more approprately injector port?).
Mike mynes reccomends the 550's for even lightly modded mini's...there us a good FAQ at mini tourque...a site that IMO does not compete with this one since it is so euro-cetric...so I think it is ok to mention. It has some good info on the pluses/possible minuses of the two different configurations.
You could give Jan a shout...might be the best option too...heck, he might give you a deal since it looks like you are going to be a good custmer of his...heck...the RMW NE flagship car!
Looking forward to the tune..looks like a lot of non tune folks might play hookey from work and come hangout! Looking forward to it!!

 

I'll be seeing you guys there - and I just so happen to be running stock injectors and am looking for 380cc injectors for that very same tune

Think we can work something out?

 

Z, I hadn't thought about contacting Jan directly. That sounds like a great idea, I may just end up doing that. A discount sure would be nice! lol

GoKaht (love that name BTW!!!), just by looking at your mod list, you might already be starting to run lean with the stock injectors.

I'm going to give the 440 idea some more thought today, but I certainly wouldn't mind selling my 380's off to someone who knows they'll utilize them. So yes, we can definitely work something out if I decide to do it. I'll PM you later on, and maybe we can go from there.

Werd!
-Dave

 

So I think I'm going to go for the 440's. But I'm not sure if I want to get used ones, or new ones. And if I get them, I want my mechanic to install them vs getting them done at Swift (my mechanic will save me some money). GoKaht, I'll PM you once I have the 440's in hand, and we can talk about selling you my 380's. I don't even think they have 10k miles on them, haven't kept track, but it's been about a year since they were installed.

But now I'm wondering if I have the 440's installed, and use the car for a bit, including the ride down to Norwich, will it be ok given that it's not tuned yet? The 440's are quite a step up from the 380's, so that's why I ask.

 

To get the full benefits of those 440 and 550's guys. Don't forget about ugrading the fuel pump and swapping out FPR's too.

These guys are MINI experts in that field. http://www.injector.com/

 

FPR's? What is that exactly?

 

Nevermind, Fuel Pressure Regulator, got it. lol Had to look it up. :P
But that's one thing Jan has not mentioned, in fact, I haven't seen anyone mentioning that at all.

You sure about that Dave?

 

The MINI FPR has an internal diaphram which works off of vac pressure from the engine. It maintains proper fuel pressure within the fuel rail while the engine is running to maintain the exact amount of fuel pressure to each injector. Once beyond a 380 injector, the ability for this and the other parts to work effectively is diminished and as you get to 550's pump upgrade from my understanding is imperative.

Marren builds MINI race cars for RSR. Give them a call and see what they do. My 2 cents.

 

You might want to install the injectors at swift....or just before you drive there. The jcw's are more or less plug and play....but larger than the 380's will likely give you lots of codes...might even burn up you cat, or worse yet melt it.
Installing the new injectors...and the fuel preassure regulator is pretty simple...just pull off the ic...release the fuel preasure from the line...then pull off the rail....2 bolts....unclip the connectors...clip on the new ones...insert....then reinstall the ic...preassureze the fuel syestem, check for leaks....then start.
The fuel preassure regulator just comes off the rail with a clip that holds it on...
I can't imingine any shop charging more than 1 hour...heck should be less.
But like I said...don't plan on putting many miles on the car after installing them before the tune...one trip with light throttle use should be fine...it would just suck to melt a cat...and have tune issues!!

 

The stuff I have read, says that even though the mini does not have a return styles fuel rail.....it can supply the 550's with adquate fuel...on a mini, unless it is a crazy monster mini since the large injectors are more about injecting the fuel at optimum timing at high rpm's....as opposed to extreme volumes...even though some folks have run mini's on E-85 with 550's...and that requires the full volume of the 550's.
The 440's you are looking at...they are the factory sized ones right... Not the redrilled one safe to say right? I've heard good things about Jan's injectors....and I think I read they fit perfect...no adaptors needed.

 

Adding larger injectors is not a magic bullet. The stock fuel pumps are built to specific specs with a range of + - like other parts. Flow rates change when you add larger injectors, and thus ability to make full use of larger bore injectors at WOT cannot be as good w/o boosting the fuel pressure...

And I would also imagine having some issues at idle as well.

I also have not heard mention of adding a larger throttle body for these upgrades or a wide band O2 sensor ?

 

Just going by the info on MotoringAlliance, and Minitourque...mynes has tuned many cars...and there seems to be many happy drivers of the newer 6 hole550's....that report no idle problems, etc...my idea with the 550's that they would provide future headroom for the planned upgrades....(I think the most important thing to remember is that the injectors are running scaled...turned down if you will, so they are actually running the full 550cc in very few, if any mini's...except in a full on race car maybe).The newer 550's are said to have great control, and very fast response...so good that the delay must be adjust during the tune to account for it...unlike older 550's that were crappy at low flow rates.
Since he is looking at the 440's...it doesn't matter...but upgrading the pump, etc...there are do many mini's running sound with very similar list...and they did not get major fuel system tweakes, and they run fine...
Either way, the list of upgrade seem awsome!! Short of adding a water cooled IC, or water/meth system, you should end up with one of the best street Mini's in the east!!

 

The factory fuel pump has no problem feeding the 550cc injectors. If they weren't tested first there wouldn't be as many people as there are running them.

 

dibs on the injectors if gokaht doesnt buy it because im getting my tune on april 25th by Jan, all im gonna have is my intake and exhaust (and pulley, thats already in - 17%)

How will injectors help performance wise? I never really understood. Can i get a significant amount of power out of injectors with a tune

 

Marren does not build RSR race engines as stated above. hasn't for two years.

550's work fine if scaled and tuned, same for 440's.

RMW and Mynes use the 550's with no problems and a proper tune.

 

Exactly

Here is something to look at http://www.rceng.com/technical.aspx

 

My money is patiently waiting to be spent

Injectors won't "add" power per se, they'll just flow more efficiently or at a high enough rate to provide the amount of fuel needed to compensate for the upgraded air/intake parts (intake, pulley, etc). The best way to describe it is you can sail around the world in an inflatable raft, and have one hell of a hard time doing it, or you could sail around in a 60' sailboat properly equipped and supplied to do it. One just does the job better

 

Interesting anology gokaht. 380s will serve you well given the mods.

OP - think duty cycle & flow. The goodness with big injectors is the head room & they can be scaled for your app.

 

440's ordered from Jan today, will get them installed at Swift on the day of the tune. Unless it's safe to install and run them way before? I know Zippy said it wasn't a good idea, and I'm fine with that, but I'm not educated enough about them to understand why it's not a good idea.

At any rate, if anyone has any additional info about that, I'm all ears.
But regardless, Swift said it would be about $100 to swap the injectors on the day of the tune. Not bad!

 

Don't put them in early. Wait till the day of the event.

 

Ok, sounds good, I'll wait then. Thanks for the input!

 

They have to be scaled. You don't want to run around pig rich.

Have fun at the event!!!!!!!!!!!!!!