First - The reason why I'm changing my clutch and flywheel.
I bought my MCS used so I don't know what kind of abuse the previous owner had done to the clutch. At about 55K miles (a year ago) the clutch pedal began to feel very rough when depressed. The pedal felt as if it was rubbing against wet rubber and rickety. After research on NAM, I learned this was a sign of the failure of the clutch to come. When ever it rains, the clutch would make the infamous "chewbacca" howl at the first few shifts. When winter time came, the clutch felt smooth - like new - but would crap out when the engine warmed up. Now at about 66K miles, I decided to not take the chance any further and change the clutch and flywheel. I actually dropped the money I was orignally going to use for a set of wheels and tires for this clutch job so it was a big sacrifice for me. I'm driving around in the spring time with snow tires now.

Why did I go with the Clutchmasters Fx2oo and Flywheel.
//MZero, Jan and NAM. Through a lot of research, I found out the price I'd pay for a OEM clutch and OEM flywheel (because the flywheel cannot be resurfaced) is a price I could be paying for something aftermarket and better. I asked questions, I searched forums, and I nagged people. I originally decided to go with the Fx1oo set up because of budget constraints (College student) but ultimately decided to go with the Fx2oo because of it's longevity over the Fx1oo. I also originally wanted to mate it with the Fidanza flywheel because of budget <again> but after more research, I found out the Fidanza flywheel chatters more than the CM flywheel, and with them both being the same specs and less than $50 difference, I went with someone's opinion of mating the CM Fx2oo to the CM flywheel. It just goes together - like eggs and bacon -//MZero.

First 50 Miles.
My clutch job was done by a very experienced, and trustworthy mechanic who charged me less than $700 for the job. I was very lucky for this break and it worked out great at the end. Note: Clutchmasters reccommends a minimum of 500 break in miles of normal stop and go traffic. No shifting at WOT and compression braking. I knew my first impression of the clutch is going to be good when my mechanic told me to get him info. for this clutch as he is looking for a replacement soon as well. When I first hopped in the MINI the clutch pedal felt amazing. Smooth and no more rubbery feeling! I expected to take off like I normally do, gas a bit, lift clutch, gas more, off clutch, go! What I didn't expect was the biting force of the clutch. This clutch can really bite, and almost snapped my neck doing so. It's a very clean and precise engagement point. Also worth to mention, the RPM does spool up a bit faster, but I don't think it makes the MINI any faster. The Fx2oo clutch isn't something I would reccommend for new manual drivers, as it is a very easy clutch to stall with. <I stalled at the pay toll without knowing>. To get the MINI moving, I had to add more gas before releasing the clutch to get the MINI going, or it would just stall. It is not a easy clutch to learn manual on, but it is great if your a bit more experienced driver and it's absolutely fine for daily driving (mines is a daily driver). Once you get the hang of it, shifting is very smooth and is done in a snap. Heal toe downshifting is much easier as the RPM is more free flowing.

After a couple hours of driving, here's the honest truth. There IS chatter. No matter what anyone tells you, there is going to be chatter. This flywheel is 11 - 12 LBs and much lighter than the OEM dual mass flywheel. If your sitting there idling in neutral, you will hear the chatter. You can actually hear the chatter underneath you, and you can hear it spool up if you give your engine a couple gentle revs. The minute you press down the clutch, the chatter goes away. Or if you rev your car after ~1500 RPM, the chatter goes away. When your driving in 1st, 2nd, 3rd gear and your around 1600 to 1700 RPM, you will hear chatter. Now...is the chatter killing me? No. It makes as much noise as your AC. My exhaust drones out the chatter anyways so it doesn't bother me. Other people may be more sensitive to repetitive noise so they may have a differen opinion. I'm very sensitive to the noise, so I can def. hear the chatter, but it doesn't bother me.

The miles after breaking it in:
I officially broke in about 650 miles. I finally gave it a couple of good runs today at the higher RPM (about 5K). Still a bit intimidated to red line it. I was still amazed at the way the clutch bites at higher RPM. The biting point is very clean when shifting properly. As you give it more gas the RPM does spool up faster but also drops faster; so when you change gears it's best to do it quick. If you let the RPM drop a bit and then change gears, this clutch will let you know! But it'll still do it's job and get it done with authority. When I was stuck in a bit of traffic today, I did notice driving in bumper to bumper traffic is a bit rough. As some of the other MMC members know, the 1st gear is the hardest to get out of in this clutch. I felt that this clutch can only get off 1st gear either aggressively or with a bit of grinding/burn; there is no middle ground. Because the clutch is very on or off, it's hard to inch a bit forward gently with the clutch without burning the clutch a bit. I feel as if this clutch will let you know if your not doing something properly and gives much more feedback then the OEM. I'm sure with more miles I would get use to the biting point more and it'll be a easier drive. The chatter is still there but I start to notice it less and less. I can only hear it now with the windows down and or if I really try pin pointing it with the windows up. The pedal is still very fluid and smooth. No signs of the old rubbery feeling when depressed. For now this clutch is awesome and I hope it'll only get better with more miles...and it better not crap on me in another 65K miles.

 

Glad to hear you like your CM setup And honestly after a couple thousand miles you'll get used to the chatter and not even notice it

 

so how much did you get the clutch/flywheel setup for?

how much total after installation? like 1200?

i'm going this route if i can't get my clutch replaced
it makes the rubbery groaning sound after 10 mins of use

thanks,
DR

 

Did you also replace the throw out bearing and guide sleeve? Did you examine the originals? If so, did they show obvious signs of wear?

 

Clutch + Flywheel + New throw out bearing = ~$800 shipped
Fluids/Oil = ~$50
Shaft Sleeve = ~$35 from MINI.
Clutch Job = ~$700

So a grand total of almost $1600. If it's making that noise, it should be replaced, because you can't tell when it's going to go bad.

The throw out bearing was replaced. If the guide sleeve and the shaft sleeve is the same thing, then yes that was replaced, if not then no. I asked my mechanic and am waiting for his response.

 

Good review on this setup, I plan to go to something very similar when I'll do the tranny swap on my just-a-cooper. I'm just undecided if I'll go to Fx100 or Fx200.

 

Fx1oo vs Fx2oo. I asked the same question. The Fx2oo outperforms the Fx1oo and lasts about 2 to 3 times longer than the Fx1oo. The only thing about the Fx2oo is that it has a break in period.

 

How hard is the break in to do? I mean, there's something particular I shouldn't do in that period (500 miles, am I right?)?

 

^
basically no WOT shifts and engine braking for 500 miles or so

 

Hey, glad you like the Clutch! I'm still having slight issues with mine...but I'm just expecting/wishing it were better then it is.

 

Thanks //MZero. Details on your issues? I'd like to hear about it incase I run into the same thing.

 

Appreciate the review.

 

I was under the impression that it was the stock "dual mass" flywheel that made the chatter noise. If you've got an aftermarket flywheel and clutch and new throwout bearing, what could possibly be making a chatter noise??

 

Just the same inconsistencies as before. The point at which the pedal grips sometimes changes and sometimes it locks in/out of gear because it doesn't fully disengage.

 

I am having an Clutch Masters FX400 6 puck & flywheel installed this week

I will let you all know how it comes out and how I like it.

Bill

 

There are many different things in the drivetrain that can cause "chatter" But if it really was the DMF itself it would not be going away when you out the clutch in. The fact of the matter is that what many call clutch chatter is actually gearbox chatter.

Certainly it should be impossible for the CM flywheel itself to chatter, it is nothing more than a piece of AL with a ring gear on it. That leaves the pressure plate, but that isnt making any noise as nothing is heard when the clucth pedal is depressed. So either the clutch plate itself is making noise or it is something downstream of that system.

 

do you need the shaft sleeve from mini?

i just ordered the fx200/flywheel combo

what tranny oil you running? redline?

thanks,
Ricky

 

I ordered a new shaft sleeve because I felt I should change it since I'm changing to a new clutch and flywheel anyways, plus my mechanic suggested to order a new one. I'm running amsoil tranny oil. I would have been happy with amsoil, redline and royal purple. Their all reputable companies.

 

I had the same decision to make just shy of a year ago when I bought my used 2004 JCW, and went with the CM alum flywheel and CM FX100. Why the 100 instead fo the 200? Because even after the 500 mile break in period, it is still possible to permanently damage the clutch. Kevlar (on the 200) holds up 5 times longer than the organic material, and can hold much more torque, but if you "Fry" it with a hard burnout, even at 20,000 miles, it's fried. Case closed. End of Story. You will never get full holding power out of it again, it will never hold the torque again. With an organic material clutch, a little bit of around the town driving will bring back the usable surface again (albeit with less life of course).

The CM alum flywheel and pressure plate are the same for either kit, FX100 or FX200. So even with the FX100 my clutch is still kind of on/off after 4000 miles. Not as bad as when I first had it installed, but if I lend it to anyone, they are sure to stall it out at first. For those of you considering an FX300 or FX400 - my heart goes out to you for around down driving. It's on or it's off. You'll have to get used to doing a lot of clutch slipping (but don't fry it!) at stop lights!

As for whether the FX100 has enough torque-handling ability? I have a 2004 Cooper S with the full JCW package. It puts out some very solid pull (haven't dyno'd it), and there's never been any hint that the clutch/pressure plate can't handle it.

Long story short - don't go for more than you really need - if you have 50 tq more than stock you might be able to jsutify the FX200, but otherwise it's a crap shoot as to whether you fry it before its normal life.

Chatter - Yup - the chatter while fully engaged is not the clutch, or the pressure plate, or the throwout bearing - it's the transmission (or maybe the engine ) (Chatter on take-up usually IS the clutch).
The DM flywheel on a stock MINI isolates the vibration of the drivetrain. Or on a typical clutch setup in a Honda or a Chevy with a solid flywheel, the clutch has center springs to absorb vibration (as well as the initial toque as it's first engaged). But put a solid clutch and a solid flywheel together, and you'll likely get chatter any time you're not under heavy load. There is always a little play in the input shaft of the transmission, and solid clutch/pressure plate amplifies it both into the transmission as well as into the engine. Mine chatters as idle, and I also hear the chatter when I decelerate in gear. Often there is a chatter at steady light throttle too. It's my own dumb fault.

I should have pushed the mechanic to order the complete set from CM - I think that when you order it as a set they include a spring-loaded clutch with the solid flywheel. But he ordered them separately, so they shipped a solid clutch (assuming it was to be mated to a DM flywheel), and then a separate alum flywheel. We discussed it a bit, he insisted it would be OK, I went with his advice.

So now I have chatter. Annoying, scare people who I lend it to chatter. I fear a seal will eventually wiggle itself loose, and I'll have to deal with it. So far so good, but it still worries me whenever I drive it.

I can't really go back and gripe to the mechanic though - the new clutch install (including parts) was all part of the purchase price when I bought it used. They took it in on trade-in for about $12,500 (a steal!) from the woman who originally bought it new, and I bought it from them with the new clutch installed and a 90 day warranty for $13,500 (an even bigger steal!). Given it's a 2004 JCW with every single option offered, I really can't complain too loudly.

EDIT: Here's a pretty good tutorial on the different types of clutch materials and designs. It's focused at Mustang owners, but the issues are the same. (They also underplay the effect of frying a kevlar clutch): http://www.americanmuscle.com/choosing-clutch.html

 

thanks for the inupt

i plan on modding the mini pretty nicely and hitting auto-x a lot so i'll be abusing the fx200 a lot

sry about your chatter

i TRIPLE checked to make sure they were sending me the Sprung clutch instead of solid.

 

This is a great product review! Thanks for taking the time to write a detailed summary.

 

Thanks Fracky!

The miles after breaking it in:
I officially broke in about 650 miles. I finally gave it a couple of good runs today at the higher RPM (about 5K). Still a bit intimidated to red line it. I was still amazed at the way the clutch bites at higher RPM. The biting point is very clean when shifting properly. As you give it more gas the RPM does spool up faster but also drops faster; so when you change gears it's best to do it quick. If you let the RPM drop a bit and then change gears, this clutch will let you know! But it'll still do it's job and get it done with authority. When I was stuck in a bit of traffic today, I did notice driving in bumper to bumper traffic is a bit rough. As some of the other MMC members know, the 1st gear is the hardest to get out of in this clutch. I felt that this clutch can only get off 1st gear either aggressively or with a bit of grinding/burn; there is no middle ground. Because the clutch is very on or off, it's hard to inch a bit forward gently with the clutch without burning the clutch a bit. I feel as if this clutch will let you know if your not doing something properly and gives much more feedback then the OEM. I'm sure with more miles I would get use to the biting point more and it'll be a easier drive. The chatter is still there but I start to notice it less and less. I can only hear it now with the windows down and or if I really try pin pointing it with the windows up. The pedal is still very fluid and smooth. No signs of the old rubbery feeling when depressed. For now this clutch is awesome and I hope it'll only get better with more miles...and it better not crap on me in another 65K miles.

 

I installed the Stage 4 clutch. I've always been hard on my clutches and since I'm not racing it everyday, just the 30 second run here and there, I felt a higher stage was necessary. I do have some engine upgrades and when the engine is finished I'll be pushing close to 300HP in a 2003 MCS, so this clutch will not be wasted.

Mine does chatter too, just while the clutch is disengaged. I'm happy to read everyone else's experiences and find out that I'm not alone and it is normal. The mechanic that set up my engine and clutch told me it was normal, but it did scare me at first because my truck chattered and the clutch system was not bled correctly and the throw-out bearing was bad.

The Stage 4 clutch chattering is there about 90% of the time. On some cold mornings (So Cal cold= 55 degrees F _) it will be quiet like my stock one was. And then on other days people at work will say what's wrong with your car??

Overall it's a great clutch and grabs quick and hard. I agree with the person that said if you don't match up the shift rpm's the clutch will let you know. If spins up/down quick so be ready.

I'm used clutch masters on all my cars and the clutchs hold up under my driving, so I would request this clutch. Spend the extra couple dollars and get a higher stage if you don't drive too much stop and go in traffic. The higher stage could prevent you from repairing sooner and the money is minimal compared to the replacement cost all over again.

 

I heard from one of the vendors that CM's arent holding up well. Dying after a few thousand miles :( are the Spec 1 kits any good? Anyone ever ordered a clutch kit from partsgeek.com? I have a lightly modded 04 cooper s. Basically a pulley swap and intake.

 

I had the FX100 kit put in last week. I have to agree on just about everthing the OP stated. The rattle is there but it doesn't bother me and I won't have to see the look of shocked bystanders because of the chewbacca howl anymore! I went with the 100 because Margaret is my daily driver in mild to heavy traffic. The clutch has great bite and spools up nicely. Very snappy. I can tell this is gonna add to the fun factor. We'll see how long she lasts.