One thing I really noticed in this test is just how hot the supercharger is running - Near 300F. The Eaton isn't nicknamed the "Heat-on/Heat-un" for nothing!

So, for all you guys that are using data-logging equipment out there, what are the highest SC temps that you've seen (when you're running your car hard) vs. ambient temp? It would be especially interesting to hear from folks who track their cars.

(I don't want to hijack this thread, but I do find it interesting that this test raises some reminders that intercooler design can affect supercharger temps.)

Kudos to the testing team. MINI research is fun!

 

Near & sometimes above 300. This is why BMW put an IC on the Mini.

All the ICs I tested a couple of years ago had some merit. Here in New England, there's a saying, "if you don't like the weather, wait a minute". Testing anything here, in the summer, to get difinitive data is extreme.

Is there a "best"? From all the data that has been posted, data I collected, anyone would be hard pressed to say "I have the best A2A without any assistance". You can have the best fit, looks, most expensive, least expensive.... But in the end the OE for the DD guy wins.
That said, The aftermarket large IC will suit driving style more than the present data would indicate.

Core flow & cooling surface are a delicate balence. The air needs to enter the core, slow down enough to cool down ( this is trick because the voluum & boost chances = when & why ). The outside cooling surface is another problem - This needs to collect air as efficently as possible. Larger is better, but the mass of the IC will retain heat - it will, also, stay cooler longer. So the type, size & frequency of the fins play a big roll in how well the core cools.

At this time I'm more inclined to believe that Bahamabart's mod scoop with that IC is a real player. PLUS, It looks like you can pack a lot of ice inside that bad boy.

Another part of the equation is the pulley. Anything above a 16 has some bigger heat issues with the blower.

A question for Alta, has anyone tested the V2 with the OE scoop removed? meaning no scoop.

 

maybe JCW sized their pulleys for this reason? How does the 17%er's survive?!?

 

The tests were performed on my car. Mods are current in my signature including the 17% pulley used for testing

 

Great vendor post with an equally great response from Intense.

Very refreshing to see DIALOG.

My thoughts on the scoop. Because the scoop is a key component, I think Alta needs to consider the following -

1) detail how the stock scoop should be modified. Detailing with pics on how much the scoop should be modified. A HOW TO GUIDE.
2) still do #1 but include a list of recommended/optional aftermarket scoops that would maximize their product.
3) develop a scoop.

The ALTA IC "package" can easy be enhanced, better for the vendor and better for the consumer. Its an easy win win.

 

I think it's a classic case of 'modding the mod'....very few things fit with OEM quality.

 

The "JCW" just wanted to be more than the MCS, so, aftermarket pulleys, rather than make a 14.8 - copy, you can get a 15, 16, 17, 19. The pulley is much like the IC discussion, there is no best 1. It's a driver thing. With Alta you can get them all, since they're interchangeable. Wear the 1 that fits the occassion!

A 17 with a 2 for stop light fighting is killer!

 

just don't race past the stop light

 

OOPs ,I didn't notice the 17%er, I wonder how much extra heat at 6800rpm that caused? (If I didn't have the JCW setup, I would consider the 17% pulley)

 

It's really the go light .

This might be a little off topic, BUT, if the IC is not doing it's job well, with pulley mods above 16, the EGT is out of sight. At cruise, with OE, EGT can reach high 15s on a hot day.

 

1. Was there one or 2 cars being used to test them? It looks like 2 and if so, did both cars get all the intercoolers?
We used only one car in the testing, mine. The other car in the picture is my friends. He owns the GRS we tested, we took it off his car to use on mine when that picture was taken,
Great, i just wanted to make sure.

2. The max pressure being logged, is this using the scan gauge and if so is this hard data on a PC or just something you saw on a gauge. If so was the RPM (and potentially car) the same? Or was it just close. I say this because of increasing boost curve on the Mini, the highest number could have a varience to it base on the exact RPM it was measured at.
The only measuring tool we had to measure boost was the scanguageII. It was not hard logged onto a PC. We used a voice recorder and ran the car to to 6800RPM thru 3rd and 4rth gears for 3-4 runs. We did the same thing thru 1-4gears after heat soaking for 8 min. When doing this, the numbers were actually read off every time the scanguage updated for the full run. I would call out when we hit 6800RPM and Roggenmini would note the reading. One thing we did notice was the scanguage seemed pretty accurate at the 6800RPM reading

So there could be some variance to it, but not much. But using the info you have that is still pretty good. Depending of if you are going to retest our intercooler, i would be willing to send you one of our Innovate loggers. Its an OBD2 logger that also does CAN and is loggable by PC. Its very handy!

3. Was all the temp data peaks? If so were they all at the same RPM?
Yes, all peaks at 6800 RPM
Perfect, so not peaks in general, but the temps were the numbers you saw at 6800. Got it!

4. Were the peak numbers used in conjunction with the same temps and the same point? Meaning if you measure 300F at that same RPM and time was the temp you show 85f? Or was that just the highest outlet number?
On my graphs using Excel I tried to line up the peak temps and low temps with the time. There was so much data recorded (once every 1/10 of a second).I tried to line them up but it would be more accurate to say that just peaks were listed.

It can be time consuming to put all that together for sure!

5. Are you able to pick 6500 RPM and produce the temps here? This would eliminate the peak numbers from varying because of RPM.
We used 6800RPM as our limit for the runs and pressure readings

Well, we fired that guy this morning................ Not really but that is far from the truth as far as modding the car to make it fit/ work. We obviously didn't train everyone perfectly so shame on us! But since the beginning of the part's design, the scoop and intake manifold both needed to be modded. This decision was made in order to make as big of intercooler as possible and we felt this was ok as our classic didn't require this.

As of 2 minutes ago, this was all redone to to make it even more clear! But for sure, if you talked to me you would have known. But either way, we need to be more clear EVERYWHERE about what has to be done.


WE didn't create a scoop because the M7 one is very good and fits a good price point. And it also makes our overall price a little lower. Here is an old pic i had of the core with the scoop being cut. This doesn't show the other angle where you can see the whole core.




Yes the M7 DFIC does come with an even better scoop and this would be a good option for our IC also. But M7 did a smart thing on their part and will only sell it with thier DFIC. I can't blame them for that, but i do wish we could buy it!

 

I hope i answered your call, as well as some others. The option #3 is doable but we get along great with M7 and its a great and easy way for us to offer a scoop with minimal design time. Plus if we were to make one, it would look just like the Ram Scoop, and we do not want to copy something they have worked hard to develop and have been selling for a long time.

 

still wondering if the V2 was ever tested without a scoop? The design may work better without. That's a big hole without. Something as simple as an anodized aluminum trim piece ( to fit around the hole ) could finish the job.

 

Yeah that's what I hated about the Alta sprayer. When mine came off one day and I found out a replacement was $40 I decided to make my own for about $5. This is it off the car...

 

I like it. I'll bet that cooling works well.

221whp with a 50 shot spells street fighter. Hey, you're right there with the big fish

 

lol yeah the nitrous was fun while it lasted...

I took it off recently because of troubles with the computer that Venom couldn't seem to fix. Looking at water/meth next...

 

Wow, good job Intense and Roggen!! I didn't know my local buddies would be taking on such a project. Really helpful. I always wondered what type of gains you'd get for such an expensive upgrade. Now I know!! So thanks to both of you for your hard work. So, do I owe you a 12 pack of Vanilla Coke or something for all that you've done?

 

Dude, vanilla's all round my friend! And your welcome It was a fun and challenging project. If you could stay away from the scca long enough to breath, your welcome to cruise over and check things out if we tackle it again.

I don't think were quite done testing. There are questions that remain unanswered and some IC's that I still have an interest in.

 

Intense - got your PM will try and get a reply to you when I finish work when I have chance to read it

 

Thanks Damo. I know, I can be long winded at times

 

We never did, but it does have a big hole. The problem is i think the air would go up and over not through the hole with out some sort of scoop there.

 

Thanks for your reply.

You have a big IC. The M7 scoop increases velocity but it's a small pipe.

Your thinking is that the areo on the nose will push too much air over the hole? We, in the North East, over the past 4 years, have had a lot of rain. For a test ( 1 of many ), I removed the scoop just to see how important the scoop really is ( the V1 was installed at the time ). There is a big difference without. The OE was designed for the OE IC. To date, I have not seen anyone remove the OE scoop for any of the aftermarket, large ICs ( there is more than double the amount of air collection cooling area on some ). Plenty of scoops made & used. They offer a little more function ( M7 with the DFIC = best ) but mostly for looks ( I do own a triple layer fire suit so flame on ). With any scoop there is a limited amount of air available before it stacks. Until there is a presure v voluume for these large ICs, I think voluume wins.

There's a big hole in the "S" hood that we are not taking full advantage of. IMHO, if we're going to insist on bigger IC for our cars we need to get more air to them to make them work efficiently.

 

If you look at all of the aftermarkets, the scoops protrude more at the top which supports your point. Regardless of the IC, I believe they all benefit from a more agressive scoop, more air means greater and sooner pressurization threw the IC. The equally important feature is "seal", if more air goes in but not threw the IC, you've gained nothing.

Air management is the key.

 

I think the Alta graph I posted is a good example of what happens when enough air isn't run over the core.
I'm trying to set up a retest right now that will include a proper scoop for the Alta V2. I'm going to try to gather data logged direct from the OBD to a computer for these tests as well.

As far as back pressure goes, I'm trying find a flow bench around here to measure how well these things are letting air through. I can't help but think there's something behind the "feel" that I get from the M7. I'd like to be able to identify what it is thats causing it.

Here's the players this time around:

~GP ic (were all excited for this one I know )
~Stock
~GRS ( I'm trying to get my hands on one of his latest models, hopefully the one that hasn't released yet )
~Forge (Bahamabarts one off!)
~M7 DFIC V2
~Alta V1
~Alta V2

This is still a work in progress at this point and is still in the planning stages. I don't have a timeframe for completion, but my hope is in the next 30-60 days. We'll see.

 

Placing my bet on the GP Make sure you have good hood to diverter seals on the Alta V1. Also, you can raise the scoop to align it to different ICs , you will have to use some foam rubber strips between the scoop and to seal it well, (it should have them either way as air will go around the scoop , right back out if it can find a way). It can be raised off the hood quite a bit .You might try installing some kind of under car air extractor, like a reverse scoop, I'm thinking some of the good butt dyno feel is air getting out well . I have a cobalt skid plate and always wondered how much it affected the air flow.