Drivetrain 19% pulley, 20 psi, cars running lean, what to do?
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1st Gear
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19% pulley, 20 psi, cars running lean, what to do?
hi,
i'm based in the UK, essentially i have a fuelling issue with my 2004 r53 cooper s - it's running lean over 5000 rpm. it's running a 19% pulley and the boost is at 20psi, poss a little higher. there are no other issues with the car and it has been thoroughly checked over. the car's done 35 000 miles.
IATs are hitting 64c at 7000rpm, i'm hoping my A2A GRS intercooler arriving on monday, a high performance radiator in combination with solving the fuelling issue will bring these temps down.
peak power is 230bhp at 6000rpm and 185 lb/ft torque.
car's current spec:
stage 2 head
jcw airbox
380cc injectors
miltek exhaust system
19% pulley
bbr remap
exedy clutch/flywheel.
i've spoken to a few UK tuners and there seem to be 2 schools of thought:-
1.change to a 17% pulley, keep present injectors or get bigger injectors and have a remap.
2.keep the 19% pulley, get a fuel pressure regulator and/or bigger injectors, and then possibly a remap.
i was just wondering if there're any thoughts on this this side of the pond?
GT tuning do an adjustable fuel pressure regulator in the UK.
i'm based in the UK, essentially i have a fuelling issue with my 2004 r53 cooper s - it's running lean over 5000 rpm. it's running a 19% pulley and the boost is at 20psi, poss a little higher. there are no other issues with the car and it has been thoroughly checked over. the car's done 35 000 miles.
IATs are hitting 64c at 7000rpm, i'm hoping my A2A GRS intercooler arriving on monday, a high performance radiator in combination with solving the fuelling issue will bring these temps down.
peak power is 230bhp at 6000rpm and 185 lb/ft torque.
car's current spec:
stage 2 head
jcw airbox
380cc injectors
miltek exhaust system
19% pulley
bbr remap
exedy clutch/flywheel.
i've spoken to a few UK tuners and there seem to be 2 schools of thought:-
1.change to a 17% pulley, keep present injectors or get bigger injectors and have a remap.
2.keep the 19% pulley, get a fuel pressure regulator and/or bigger injectors, and then possibly a remap.
i was just wondering if there're any thoughts on this this side of the pond?
GT tuning do an adjustable fuel pressure regulator in the UK.
5th Gear
Joined: May 2008
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I'm speaking only from past experience on my own car, I'm definitely no expert on how all of the combinations work together. That being said, I have a few comments and questions.
1) That IAT sounds low, are you sure it's not higher. I see many cars running around here, with less boost and pulley, running much higher IAT's. Could just be the climate you are in.
2) 380cc injectors should work up to 220-230whp. Thats over 250bhp. Mine ran 232whp and just started leaning out towards redline.
3) Is the BBR remap a dyno(rolling road) remap, or just a simple re-flash and go?
4) How are you correcting the ECU fault that should occur over 18.5-19psi boost? Most cars throw a code as the map sensor goes out of limits.
I would try to get BBR to re-tune the car to fuel correctly. This should be done on a dyno. Changing all of the parts(pulley, injectors, etc.) won't do you any good if you can't get the ECU programmed correctly.
EDIT: One more thing; peak power is at 6000rpm?
1) That IAT sounds low, are you sure it's not higher. I see many cars running around here, with less boost and pulley, running much higher IAT's. Could just be the climate you are in.
2) 380cc injectors should work up to 220-230whp. Thats over 250bhp. Mine ran 232whp and just started leaning out towards redline.
3) Is the BBR remap a dyno(rolling road) remap, or just a simple re-flash and go?
4) How are you correcting the ECU fault that should occur over 18.5-19psi boost? Most cars throw a code as the map sensor goes out of limits.
I would try to get BBR to re-tune the car to fuel correctly. This should be done on a dyno. Changing all of the parts(pulley, injectors, etc.) won't do you any good if you can't get the ECU programmed correctly.
EDIT: One more thing; peak power is at 6000rpm?
Last edited by big howe; Jul 27, 2008 at 08:01 PM.
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,629
Likes: 7
From: Pipe Creek, Texas
Please share the method used to measure boost. Was there a fan directed at the intercooler?
Based on the limited info provided, boost is on the high side for a 19% equipped M45 and ported head. Miltek’s header flange ports are not much larger than stock, I would suspect a flow reduction at that location first. Having had three defective Miltek headers, two with off center primary tube placement, you may be up against a restriction that cannot be improved upon without replacing the header.
Since myself and others have run a 19%, 380cc injectors, and 7,000 rpm redline, without going lean; I would suspect an improper tune. Keep in mind high IAT combined with other sensor info, triggers extra fuel metering, which isn’t evident. It is possible the injectors are at their limit, but that case is more probable in a configuration with major improvements in flow and/or higher rpm. It is also possible the fuel pump is not working well, or there are line restrictions, or the fuel filter is incredibly clogged (not likely), and that is easily determined by trouble shooting with a fuel pressure gauge.
I think your hopes are misdirected on the new intercooler and radiator; I’ve recorded much higher IAT, with timing pull occurring higher in the rpm range than you’ve reported elsewhere, and A/F remaining on the safe side if not a tad rich, using the OEM intercooler and cooling system. BTW, there’s nothing too wimpy about your torque figure for a 2004 model.
Based on the limited info provided, boost is on the high side for a 19% equipped M45 and ported head. Miltek’s header flange ports are not much larger than stock, I would suspect a flow reduction at that location first. Having had three defective Miltek headers, two with off center primary tube placement, you may be up against a restriction that cannot be improved upon without replacing the header.
Since myself and others have run a 19%, 380cc injectors, and 7,000 rpm redline, without going lean; I would suspect an improper tune. Keep in mind high IAT combined with other sensor info, triggers extra fuel metering, which isn’t evident. It is possible the injectors are at their limit, but that case is more probable in a configuration with major improvements in flow and/or higher rpm. It is also possible the fuel pump is not working well, or there are line restrictions, or the fuel filter is incredibly clogged (not likely), and that is easily determined by trouble shooting with a fuel pressure gauge.
I think your hopes are misdirected on the new intercooler and radiator; I’ve recorded much higher IAT, with timing pull occurring higher in the rpm range than you’ve reported elsewhere, and A/F remaining on the safe side if not a tad rich, using the OEM intercooler and cooling system. BTW, there’s nothing too wimpy about your torque figure for a 2004 model.
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1st Gear
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okay, thanks for the advice, the tuner my car's at has said they can't remap the car with the boost hitting 20 psi and the temps hitting 65c. he says it's not safe. so i'm kinda confused. 
Last edited by sayanthan; Jul 28, 2008 at 07:37 AM.
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1st Gear
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i thought 380cc injectors were enough, but according to the figures from the dyno, they're maxing out!- that's what i've been told. the BBR map i believe is a dodged MTH map.
my car regularly throws that code, practically every time i accelerate hard that code will be thrown. i've had the fault code read and it was the boost threshold being exceeded. i was told this is intself nothing to worry about and is common on high power cars - what would need to be corrected exactly?
my car regularly throws that code, practically every time i accelerate hard that code will be thrown. i've had the fault code read and it was the boost threshold being exceeded. i was told this is intself nothing to worry about and is common on high power cars - what would need to be corrected exactly?
Last edited by sayanthan; Jul 28, 2008 at 07:38 AM.
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Please share the method used to measure boost. Was there a fan directed at the intercooler?
i think they got the boost data from the OBD II on the dyno and while driving. the bonnet was down and there was a fan directing air through the bonnet scoop.
Based on the limited info provided....,
what would you like to know?
boost is on the high side for a 19% equipped M45 and ported head. Miltek’s header flange ports are not much larger than stock, I would suspect a flow reduction at that location first. Having had three defective Miltek headers, two with off center primary tube placement, you may be up against a restriction that cannot be improved upon without replacing the header.
the front silencer was replaced as this was noted to be rattling and this has freed up the car in terms of it's performance, however boost increased from 18-19psi to 20psi when this was changed. i'll ask the garage about checking the header - thanks for that suggestion
Since myself and others have run a 19%, 380cc injectors, and 7,000 rpm redline, without going lean; I would suspect an improper tune. Keep in mind high IAT combined with other sensor info, triggers extra fuel metering, which isn’t evident. It is possible the injectors are at their limit, but that case is more probable in a configuration with major improvements in flow and/or higher rpm. It is also possible the fuel pump is not working well, or there are line restrictions, or the fuel filter is incredibly clogged (not likely), and that is easily determined by trouble shooting with a fuel pressure gauge.
according to the dyno results i understand the injectors were maxing out at high revs and so subsequently running lean. temps were also running high at the same time >65c. ? so head and exhaust are flowing well??
i will ask for fuel pressure to be checked. i guess i could have the fuel filters changed anyway. car has always been run on 99 octane fuel.
I think your hopes are misdirected on the new intercooler and radiator; I’ve recorded much higher IAT, with timing pull occurring higher in the rpm range than you’ve reported elsewhere, and A/F remaining on the safe side if not a tad rich, using the OEM intercooler and cooling system. BTW, there’s nothing too wimpy about your torque figure for a 2004 model.
i think they got the boost data from the OBD II on the dyno and while driving. the bonnet was down and there was a fan directing air through the bonnet scoop.
Based on the limited info provided....,
what would you like to know?
boost is on the high side for a 19% equipped M45 and ported head. Miltek’s header flange ports are not much larger than stock, I would suspect a flow reduction at that location first. Having had three defective Miltek headers, two with off center primary tube placement, you may be up against a restriction that cannot be improved upon without replacing the header.
the front silencer was replaced as this was noted to be rattling and this has freed up the car in terms of it's performance, however boost increased from 18-19psi to 20psi when this was changed. i'll ask the garage about checking the header - thanks for that suggestion
Since myself and others have run a 19%, 380cc injectors, and 7,000 rpm redline, without going lean; I would suspect an improper tune. Keep in mind high IAT combined with other sensor info, triggers extra fuel metering, which isn’t evident. It is possible the injectors are at their limit, but that case is more probable in a configuration with major improvements in flow and/or higher rpm. It is also possible the fuel pump is not working well, or there are line restrictions, or the fuel filter is incredibly clogged (not likely), and that is easily determined by trouble shooting with a fuel pressure gauge.
according to the dyno results i understand the injectors were maxing out at high revs and so subsequently running lean. temps were also running high at the same time >65c. ? so head and exhaust are flowing well??
i will ask for fuel pressure to be checked. i guess i could have the fuel filters changed anyway. car has always been run on 99 octane fuel.
I think your hopes are misdirected on the new intercooler and radiator; I’ve recorded much higher IAT, with timing pull occurring higher in the rpm range than you’ve reported elsewhere, and A/F remaining on the safe side if not a tad rich, using the OEM intercooler and cooling system. BTW, there’s nothing too wimpy about your torque figure for a 2004 model.
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Thread Starter
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1st Gear
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well it's at the garage, so not doing anything with it! i've emailed RMW, hopefully jan can work some magic with a custom tune via 1320autos in the UK...
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