Good morning!
Hey! please don't everyone freak out, I'm just going to ask a couple of questions, and my tone would indicate plain curiosity-so no offense intended, or implied...
In re-reading these comments this morning,The guy had a legit question to ask, but the timing of his "contacting" vendor and issuing rant was a bit off. My questions will be and probably off topic so sorry ahead of time. Bear with me.
Mr. Brueggeman is RMW and is in direct competion with Evotec and all the other canned and custom tuners, right. Now that being said-and looking at it from a safety standpoint with no ill will intended, or implied.
If I were trying to sell my product to someone who already had the competitors product on it, and discovered a "problem", and it "not being my first one" to be identified,corrected/changed/seen, and yet did not report it(except in forum text) to those who own the product, and could fix "it",or follow up, and I just used "this problem" as a tool to help upsell my product, could I be held negligent for not reporting this "problem" to the parent company or BBB? And if I discovered "problem" by using my product,and by"fixing" it with my product ,and yet not having the customer go investigate/compare/inquire with original product company to insure problem existed at all, before I installed my product,could I be held negligent? Or ,am I just a good salesman, and these people are just suckers?
Thanks, and I'm not being mean-okay I just want everyone safe(fast, but safe)
Sean Carpenter
Heavy Industrial Safety Supervisor
Ferndale, Washington State

 

I'm not sure I follow your post Sean. Are you saying that Jan should have reported Evotech to the BBB?

I think that's probably hasty, the OP is in contact with the vendor that sold him the tune. I never saw any ill intent out of his post. To me it just looked like he was asking if anyone else had encountered a similar issue (Likely after talking to Jan who said himself that he had encountered this before).

 

Not quite sure I'm following your logic on this one. RMW has no responsibility in contacting anyone about this other than telling the customer they are dealing with about the findings. Should RMW call the vendor and the BBB? I can't see that.

If I sell exhausts, and a customer comes in with another companies product, and I find a crack in it, I tell the customer. If I find 10 this way, I just tell my customers. You think I should call the other company and complain? Or tell the BBB. I have never heard of one company going to the BBB on another. The customer should do this after exhausting all avenues with the primary vendor, and not receiving satisfying results. We're not talking Life-Fire-Safety issues here, it's car parts. The fact that RMW says they have found this a few times, and not come on the forums trying to rat people out and drum up business I think says a lot for their character.
When you start talking about "being held negligent" sounds like you are insinuating lawsuits. I think you're way, way out of bounds here.

 

Or is it ibecause they are two totally different things attemting to do the same thing and I'm a dork? Please be kind on that last part

 

Okay. That's why I ask. I try not to insinuate anything,or come from way,way out, that's why I gave the look ahead in the opener. Life/fire/safety issues are to be vaild considering the speeds, pushing envelope thing that can be done with all these fast toys. Sorry, just trying to look out for the guy in the rear view mirror, and converse with all you folks who work with the toys and get hands dirty(nitrile) I hope everything keeps moving forward.
Thanks for the help.

 

Pure13 is right to ask for others wiith simular issues that he is having with a product. But he asked and then stated paying $650 for it instead of waiting for a resolve from the vender or manufacture desided to get another like product. I would think you would wait before posibly spending more money to see about getting you first product of choice resolved?
"fishy"
Pure13 claims know the buisness? If I were Evo tech I would correct the problem and let you keep the product. Its one thing to have a product that the vender/manufacure does nothing to correct issues,complaints or defects but it is another thing to "test" a product and then claim it is defunked to choose another. I am not saying that was done here just an example.

And it is clear that Mini Madness or Evo tech did not get a chance to correct Pure13 situation.

 

pm'd you about this advise please

 

Jan tuned my car yesterday morning. We briefly talked about the OP and his software issue from Thursday.
Jan did not "direct" anyone to post comments on NAM or elsewhere. Precisely because of some of the attitudes and slamming, in both directions, that I have read above.
If you read Jans post with a clear and open mind, you will notice that Jan stated - very clearly - that he has tuned other cars in past months, in other parts of the country, that had the same defective software as on the OP's car.
Which would logically dictate that Evotech was/is aware of the problem, assuming that other owners have contacted them regarding the defect.
Hard to believe that other owners would not contact Evotech or at the very least the dealer who sold it to them.
Which in turn means that someone at Evotech should have contacted their dealers and asked for sales information so that Evotech could rectify the problem and avoid the current situation.
Based on what I have seen here so far, that hasn't happened.
The OP paid full price.
He did not get a full product.
As far as I am concerned, that is theft.
And thieves get no leniency.

 

How do we know the OP did not get the full product. It's quite possible that the Evotech tune is all hype and is only a change in redline and some DSC settings.

Pulling out words like theft and calling an entity thieves is pretty darn harsh. Lets back away from that rhetoric a bit. We've all seen products that are over hyped that under perform.

Remember this thread is looking for experiences with the Evotech tune.

Now as to the OP going to a different tune before having the Evotech issue resolved. My thoughts are this. Jan (RMW) has proven himself to many of us and the general consensus is the tune works and the tuner is competent. Being it's not so easy to obtain said tune the OP had the opportunity to avail himself of RMW's services and did so. In doing so he may have also forfeited any chance of seeing a suitable (to the OP) resolution. Sometimes you have to take the opportunity at hand and move on.

 

Well there you go again Gnat, making complete sense and diffusing the situation. You surely won't last long as a mod.

 

"How do we know the OP did not get the full product?"
The remap wasn't there when the OP and Jan looked for it. I'd hardly call that "over-hyped".

The ad copy from MM's site:
[FONT=Arial]After months of rigorous development, Evotech's latest software programs are ready to help you unleash the full potential of your stock or modified MINI Cooper S. Evotech purchased a single MINI Cooper S as a test bed to develop "modification specific” ECU chip programming that you can now use for your MINI. Through the hard work of Evotech's engineers and programmers, your Mini Cooper S can have an ECU that is specifically tailored to work with all of the performance upgrades you've made.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial] [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]The Evotech MINI Cooper S ECU Chip upgrade shifts the focus towards performance by re-mapping the software and increasing the sampling rate without sacrificing reliability. When developing the re-mapped ECU, great lengths were taken to ensure accurate repeatable dyno results. Evotech's MINI Cooper S ECU saw months of hardcore development on the racetrack, street and the dyno to ensure both reliability and repeatable performance. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial] [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]Evotech's software was developed using a single dyno and the same MINI Cooper S so that gains in power could be tracked consistently throughout testing. Evotech does this so that variables can't muddy the programming equation skewing the performance test results. In so doing, Evotech has developed a comprehensive range of software to meet your current and future modification needs.[/FONT]

If Evotech claims that their software remaps the stock ECU, and their software does not, in fact, do that, then there is no logical position left but to stand by the last two lines of my last post.
If Evotech had a manufacturing glitch of some sort, Evotech should have proactively found an earlier resolution as alluded to in my last post.

 

One could state that by upping the rev limit and makeing some DSC changes the software has been remapped.

Dimsport allows access to many different areas of the map. Not every one of them is touched. I do know from personal experience that the DSC folder and the Rev limit folder are touched. If only that was done wouldn't that be considered a remap.

There is nothing in the Evotech advertising copy that states areas we think should be remapped to achieve our goals is touched or not touched.

 

Haha, were you using word as a spell checker? Gotta clean your text up in notepad before you post it online when you do that, or it has all kinds of HTML coding tagged onto it.

Alternatively, you could download IESpell which checks stuff as you type in Internet Explorer, or just use Mozilla Firefox (Built in spell checker), which IMO is a much better browser than IE.

 

Rorik you are out of your mind!! What is wrong with you bringing the words theft and thieves into a post all based on assumptions? Your own words: "Which would logically dictate that Evotech was/is aware of the problem, assuming that other owners have contacted them regarding the defect." It logically dictates....assuming?? Yeah that makes a lot of sense. What logic is there in assumptions? You're calling a vendor a thief by assuming they knew about the problem with their software. How ridiculous. And I agree with Gnat...who says increasing rev limit and modifiying DSC controls is not a remap of the ECU software??? Maybe its not what us the consumer would hope for when we buy a product that is claiming to be remapped but it is esentially remapped. Please from now on listen to Gnat and let him do the "logical" reasoning ok? He seems to be one of the few people who can reads people comments and bring reasoning to any thread on any topic. Thank god for the moderaters on this forum!

 

I'd guess that its a cut and paste from some Evotech ad copy online. To bad they didn't use an overall style sheet but instead have the tags coded for each paragraph.

 

Come on guys, lets not get all worked up. Everyone should feel free to post their feelings.

 

Right on...just thinking back to my PC days when I'd spell check in word (My spelling sucks!). Regardless, firefox is a neat browser!

 

Reread the sentence that comes after the one you so gleefully highlighted. Judging by your response, you missed the connection.
So much for your logic.

 

At the top of my incorrect copy/paste job (thank you, Rustyboy) I clearly state where I got the ad copy from. I used the same initials for Mini Madness that the OP and several others used.

 

And finally, if you actually read the ad copy that I quoted, it clearly states that it does more than raise the rev limit and change the DSC.
I guess you missed that too in your haste.

 

[FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2][FONT=Verdana]Hey Guys! i hope everyone is having a blast! In an earlier post on this topic, ear to ear said he had a GIAC tune already-so does this mean Mr. B can tweak this software into better performance, and still keep it GIAC or is it now RMW? So if I had EVOTECH for example working fine, it can be goosed into better performance with Mr.B's massaging and still be EVOTEC? I was thinking, since the entire hubbub over pure13 and our reaction, created dialog, that perhaps I could find a spot with you down there to use my car as another test -good, bad, indifferent since I'm at stage 2. I got cash, wife's out of town with the kids,shh- but am working today and live in Ferndale(Bellingham), but could be there @crack o dawn on Sunday, if its possible for you, if not, no sweat, just trying to make it right for all of the membership base, be a stand up guy,and to find out for myself,so as to check on my EVOTEC purchase-If we find a problem in EVOTEC and its proved-I buy the beer-360-957-5636 ask "the Man" if willing -if not cool too wish him well and thanks for helping our club members.[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]

 

I read over many times to see exactly what it says. I was very careful in my reading the text to note there is no mention of what is done. You think I want you to point out an obvious mistake I might make.

There is NO mention at all what it really does. There is one bit that states re-mapping the software and increasing the sampling rate There is nothing to indicate which of the 100's of folders available to be remapped are remapped.

For all we know it could only the rev limit and DSC folders that are remapped.

I chose my words carefully.

This thread is going no place. You think that Evotech are thieves then prove it without a shadow of a doubt. There is a jury of your peers here on NAM.

 

There may be some confusion as to how the various tunes work.

The software MINI has on the cars is a series of tables. Sensors relay their reading the the ECU which then looks up what settings to use on the various tables. Tools such as Dimsport allow the tuner direct access to the table. The data can then be changed and reflashed, overwriting the previous data.

In effect having Jan tune over GIAC would change the data from GIAC's to RMW's.

 

I have a question? Keeping in mind I am asking about a car that is ready for it new belts,plugs ect.

On a Dyno run does not the A/F show there has been a change to the stock tune?

John

 

You are absolutely correct that there is a jury of my peers here. And if it is proven that Evotechs software is not flawed, then I have no problem in publicly apologizing to them in this thread. However, if it works the other way around, I will expect the same in return.
One question: Where is the 42 whp that the OP is missing? Would that have been achieved with just the hardware, rev limit and DSC adjustment provided by the stage 3 kit?
OK, two questions.