Drivetrain (Cooper S) MINI Cooper S (R53) intakes, exhausts, pulleys, headers, throttle bodies, and any other modifications to the Cooper S drivetrain.

Drivetrain So much debate about intercoolers and intakes

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Old May 11, 2008 | 10:42 AM
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So much debate about intercoolers and intakes

Here is another car we just did with the following mods

17% Helix pulley
RMW Cylinder head
RMW Cam
RMW Full exhaust
RMW 440cc injectors
RMW Custom tune

STOCK PARTS
Stock intercooler
Stock throttle body
Stock JCW CAI
Stock internals blah blah blah

just goes to show you... it's NOT how much spend.... it's HOW you spend it We have a new leader Watch out for that black cabrio in Norcal
 
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Old May 11, 2008 | 10:45 AM
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Thats impressive!! May have to put a 17% pulley on before thursday!!
 
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Old May 11, 2008 | 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Jaw_F430
Thats impressive!! May have to put a 17% pulley on before thursday!!

LOL... James, you would do better to change your exhaust and buy earplugs
 
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Old May 11, 2008 | 10:55 AM
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Im in no way arguing with you Jan, your by far the master. I am WONDERING however with the head and 440s and 17% pulley, arent you concerned with heat or atleast considered the numbers with a cooler charge? why wouldnt an intercooler make a monster difference in this case? teach master and grasshopper will listen.
 
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Old May 11, 2008 | 11:05 AM
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Hey Jan,
Any breakthroughs on the automatic tune front?Did fiddling w/Checkers car pan out for more gains?I wanna put in Heyzeus head soon at Danny's.

ps-is there a thread anywhere where you talk about the racing program your involved in?
-Still enjoyin' the hell outta my car!
 
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Old May 11, 2008 | 11:09 AM
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I'll answer 2 posts in this one....

We haven't seen a better intercooler on the track than the stock one if you are looking for air-air in traditional mounting.

We have finished our W2A kit now and will be selling it as of....NOW
It is the only system we have used which works in all situations and happens to take the most heat out of the charge of all water air's that we have tested.

As for the Automatics I haven't had a chance yet to get on this. We hope to be moving into our shop soon and it will give me the opportunity with our dyno to play for hrs on end.

We will be discussing our racing program shortly
 
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Old May 11, 2008 | 11:19 AM
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Kul!
 
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Old May 11, 2008 | 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by the platform
Kul!

going to need to talk about that art soon.... want something for the shop
 
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Old May 11, 2008 | 11:27 AM
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thanks Jan. I know your not tuning for a while starting soon, when do you think you may start up again? after lemans? when/if you do how does a nice trip to scenic,beautiful cincinnati sound? i know i can get atleast 6-10 people interested and have a dyno location ready very cheap. ?? theres alot of people here that dont have many options but unichip and helix13. how would i set something like that up if your interested?
 
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Old May 11, 2008 | 11:33 AM
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also if Cincinnati did sound like a possibility, what do you like to see or what will help gain decent numbers on a tune? Without spending thousands. I love my mini but i cant personally justify a few grand. I have a 15% pulley a 2% crank, Alta CAI, Invidia Catback. I know ill need JCW 380 injectors for the tune but do you recommend anything else pre-tune to help get a couple horseys? thanks Jan.
 
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Old May 11, 2008 | 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Jhud
also if Cincinnati did sound like a possibility, what do you like to see or what will help gain decent numbers on a tune? Without spending thousands. I love my mini but i cant personally justify a few grand. I have a 15% pulley a 2% crank, Alta CAI, Invidia Catback. I know ill need JCW 380 injectors for the tune but do you recommend anything else pre-tune to help get a couple horseys? thanks Jan.

the RMW cam is a start
$415 shipped to wonderful Cincy

We will be racing around the country and we will have a dyno with us on most occasions so stop by the track
 
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Old May 11, 2008 | 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Revolution Mini Works

We haven't seen a better intercooler on the track than the stock one if you are looking for air-air in traditional mounting.
So, there are several DFICs out there, and I thought they also had some dyno numbers to show some improvement over stock. Is that all bunk? Do these DFICs have no value over stock?

Definitely W2A, while more complicated does have some advantages.
 
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Old May 11, 2008 | 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by mini_racer
So, there are several DFICs out there, and I thought they also had some dyno numbers to show some improvement over stock. Is that all bunk? Do these DFICs have no value over stock?

Definitely W2A, while more complicated does have some advantages.
It's all clever marketing.
 
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Old May 11, 2008 | 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Revolution Mini Works

We haven't seen a better intercooler on the track than the stock one if you are looking for air-air in traditional mounting.
GP IC??
 
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Old May 11, 2008 | 12:12 PM
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cmon nabe, im not arguing with you, im just trying to learn but cooler temps=more power. no?
 
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Old May 11, 2008 | 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by mini_racer
So, there are several DFICs out there, and I thought they also had some dyno numbers to show some improvement over stock. Is that all bunk? Do these DFICs have no value over stock?

Definitely W2A, while more complicated does have some advantages.
In track use it's been reported as the session progresses the DFIC's retain heat. My own seat of the pants and data logging of terminal speeds along with acceleration g's show that the GP IC retains the same performance from the start of the session to the end. The same was not shown when I ran one of the DFIC's on the market.

I'll be looking to add the RMW W2A IC and cam soon myself.
 
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Old May 11, 2008 | 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by mini_racer
So, there are several DFICs out there, and I thought they also had some dyno numbers to show some improvement over stock. Is that all bunk? Do these DFICs have no value over stock?

Definitely W2A, while more complicated does have some advantages.

we have had numerous cars take off their intercoolers and gone back to stock on the track and have gone faster

I will be logging some data on the W2a either next weekend or the weekend after on the track. I will post up some data
 
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Old May 11, 2008 | 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by gnatster
GP IC??

yes
but even the stocker runs better than some of the aftermarket ones
 
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Old May 11, 2008 | 01:12 PM
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Jan can you show us pictures for the W2A ?
 
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Old May 11, 2008 | 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Luys
Jan can you show us pictures for the W2A ?
I will post some on Monday and should have some data from the track in 1-2 weeks
 
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Old May 11, 2008 | 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Luys
Jan can you show us pictures for the W2A ?
we will post data with it
 

Last edited by Revolution Mini Works; May 11, 2008 at 01:45 PM. Reason: dirty double post
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Old May 11, 2008 | 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Jhud
Im in no way arguing with you Jan, your by far the master. I am WONDERING however with the head and 440s and 17% pulley, arent you concerned with heat or atleast considered the numbers with a cooler charge? why wouldnt an intercooler make a monster difference in this case? teach master and grasshopper will listen.
I've logged intake temps on every one of our cars. The stock IC isn't a problem. It's far more efficient than any of the aftermarket Air to Air IC's I've tested.

On the dyno with the stock IC the HIGHEST numbers I see are 102 degrees (Or about 35 above ambiant). That's on a dyno, with little to no airflow.

The reason a different IC doesn't make any difference is because they heat soak too easily. The other IC's on the market weight 4-5 x what the stocker weighs, and that's a BIG deal (Takes a LONG time to cool off once it's hot).

I've been saying it for years now and people just keep wasting money, if we don't need IC's making 250+ whp then you don't need one making 180!

Will an IC that actually does something help? Sure. We've tested the Laminova on the dyno and on the track. For a single pull or two back to back pulls, it doesn't make that big of a difference, but on the track it's night and day. Spinning up to 8200 RPM's I saw intake temps peaking at around 175 (It was about 100 degrees out). The Laminova was consistently 40-50 degrees cooler.

None of the Air to Air IC's we've tested other than the Stock and GP at this point make any power. Some actually lose power because of pressure drop and overheating.

Hope this helps!
 
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Old May 11, 2008 | 01:46 PM
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Very impressive numbers!

How crucial are IAT's during the tune?
 
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Old May 11, 2008 | 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by rustyboy155
I've logged intake temps on every one of our cars. The stock IC isn't a problem. It's far more efficient than any of the aftermarket Air to Air IC's I've tested.

On the dyno with the stock IC the HIGHEST numbers I see are 102 degrees (Or about 35 above ambiant). That's on a dyno, with little to no airflow.

The reason a different IC doesn't make any difference is because they heat soak too easily. The other IC's on the market weight 4-5 x what the stocker weighs, and that's a BIG deal (Takes a LONG time to cool off once it's hot).

I've been saying it for years now and people just keep wasting money, if we don't need IC's making 250+ whp then you don't need one making 180!

Will an IC that actually does something help? Sure. We've tested the Laminova on the dyno and on the track. For a single pull or two back to back pulls, it doesn't make that big of a difference, but on the track it's night and day. Spinning up to 8200 RPM's I saw intake temps peaking at around 175 (It was about 100 degrees out). The Laminova was consistently 40-50 degrees cooler.

None of the Air to Air IC's we've tested other than the Stock and GP at this point make any power. Some actually lose power because of pressure drop and overheating.

Hope this helps!
there is a reason yours are so low compared to others

regardless the W2A is far superior in back to back hammering of the car
I have a few tricks up the sleeve down the road for cooling it even more
 
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Old May 11, 2008 | 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by D-MAN
Very impressive numbers!

How crucial are IAT's during the tune?

for each 6 degrees of inlet temp= 1% of your total power
 
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