Does anyone have the Water-Air Intercooler installed yet or on order. Randy gave a great teaser in the product announcement, but not enough information for us salivating Mini Owners. Some really cool products are starting to hit the market. I am really interested in the Water-Air Intercooler since it looks like the real route to go to decrease temps and the effect of heat soak. Any interesting information or real use information would be great (i.e. how much of a difference does it make, what is the seat of the pants feel, cost, time to install....). Thanks.

 

I know I'm slightly biased, but until next week, I'm really the only one who can answer as the first units just went out. They are all gone, and I am now waiting on the second shipment of kits to arrive. The cores come from New Zealand.

Here are some of the facts:

The horsepower gain on a warm car, depending on ambient temp and load, is 13 horsepower. The lowest gain I've seen is 9. The outlet temps on the intercooler are much more consistent, with a delta of only 30F at max, and the temp comparison from stock to water-air is as much as 60F (!) if the ambient temps are just right. Typically, the outlets are 35F better than the stock. The typical delta at idle compared to moving on the stock cooler is around 70F, and can go higher under heavy load.

The unit uses the factory intercooler and jackets it, preventing any loss of pressure across the unit from excess thickness.

The unit is warrantied against any manufacturing defects for 12 months.

It comes with an installation CD, and the install runs about 2-3 hours. You have to remove the front bumper to mount the radiator and the pump. This takes a T50 torx and a 13mm socket with an extension, plus a phillips head and a 10mm socket. It isn't all that scary - honest!

The cost is (gulp) $1050.

Give me a call if you have any other questions.

Randy
720-841-1002

 

Thats nothing to gulp at.

Considering the HP increase its actually a better buy than most exhaust systems.

For the guy looking for every last HP, this might be the answer.

 

Putting Mine on Tonight...

 

Randy.

Just curious about the 9-13 hp. Were there any other mods on the engine that you baselined? Just wondering, if that was an additional say 13 hp an engine already running near 200 wheel hp?

More practically, is the enhanced intercooler something that would enhance reliability and reduce stress on the engine as well as increasing performance?

Thanks.

 

ME ? Well I am waiting for mine from UPS, and will Dyno the car with all my other mods at Renntec / Evotech it looks like the week of August 11th, so will pass that along when I get that Dyno done ...............

 

I don't think the intercooler creates any extra horsepower. It only frees up horsepower lost from heat soak. It brings the performance that you receive on a really hot day back to what you would see early in the morning when it is cool out and the engine has not gotten hot. Am I right Randy?

I thought I read somewhere that they had the same problem rating the JCW kit. I heard in the Arizona desert it was only getting 180hp, but in the cooler climates up north it was pulling 220hp. I am pretty sure that is the story behind the intercooler, but correct me if I am wrong.

 

Well, almost. It does create horsepower in the way an intake does - the more dense you can get the intake charge, the power you can make with it. If the intake charge is more dense than you could have ever gotten from a top mount intercooler, voila - horsepower.

teldon,

Good question. The 9 was on the car with 200 at the wheels already. The 13 is on a car with the intake, ECU, pulley and exhaust (I think it may already have the throttle body as well actually).

As far as increasing reliability - sorta. I can see how if you are running a cooler charge, the CHT would be lower, and therefore be less stressful on the motor. It really isn't the same as say an oil cooler for increased reliability though. It's more like always driving your car on a cooler day (since the outlet temps are lower - similar to a cooler ambient day with an air-air).

Hope that helps!

Randy

 

Randy,

I just Finished, installing, Very nice, i hope to get do some testing tomorrow as well as this weekend at the Dragon, Nice install, instructions are as expected from you, perfect... the only recommendation is to tape the water neck when you ship, because the most difficult thing about the install was getting the shipping "peanuts" out of it.. Other than that pretty much a very easy install anyone can do it......

 

Any Pictures?

 

>>Good question. The 9 was on the car with 200 at the wheels already. The 13 is on a car with the intake, ECU, pulley and exhaust (I think it may already have the throttle body as well actually).
>>
>>As far as increasing reliability - sorta. I can see how if you are running a cooler charge, the CHT would be lower, and therefore be less stressful on the motor. It really isn't the same as say an oil cooler for increased reliability though. It's more like always driving your car on a cooler day (since the outlet temps are lower - similar to a cooler ambient day with an air-air).

Thanks Randy. It seems like the increases of some of the mods get somehwat lost in the wash when you stop piling the mods on. That's pretty impressive that those numbers are starting at an already lofty point. I think there might be some reliability gain based on what you said considering some of the sporadic reports that members have reported on hot days with a/c on, bumbling in traffic.

For some reason, I've been interested in this modification since it first surfaced on here. Must be all that reading about old Saab turbos when I was in HS.

Did you happen to notice a Brit tuner (BBR) who has fashioned some type of a ram air induction system on the scoop. It looks like a rather ungainly addition to the scoop to hopefully direct more air into the engine. The website claims - "Increases air inlet pressure by 8% and reduces the inlet charge temperature at 100 mph by no less than 10 degrees C!"

BBR Mini

 

Randy,

Where is the water comming from? The ALTA water sprayer used the windshield wiper containers and was turned on by using the rear wiper spray.

Does MotorSports work similarly? I would really like it to use a seperate container for the water so you can put clean distillled water in it and not worry about washer fluid levels. Button controls would be nice as well.

 

>>Randy,
>>
>>Where is the water comming from? The ALTA water sprayer used the windshield wiper containers and was turned on by using the rear wiper spray.
>>
>>Does MotorSports work similarly? I would really like it to use a seperate container for the water so you can put clean distillled water in it and not worry about washer fluid levels. Button controls would be nice as well.

I think it's a closed system, where once the water is added, you shouldn't need to touch it for quite a while.

 

The water to air intercooler the water is self conatined unit, has its own reservoir and everything, very nice, I think im going to add a spigot to mine so that it can be drained and refilled in pits, if needed to get some the temps out of the water, more so on drag events than anything else.....

 

How much does this system weigh fully loaded w/ water (minus the weight of the stocker)? While the extra power shold offset the added weight, it is more weight over the front wheels. I'm also assuming you'd have to run some sort of antifreeze mixture in it as well. I think I would still prefer a well-sorted larger air-air intercooler....

 

To answer a question above, if I recal correctly from when Randy was in the Bay Area, the water supply would be in the cowl area, on the pasenger side (US).

When I do this mod, I will make a change and move it (the H20 supply tank) to the underside of my MCS utilizing the open exhaust hanger... I have the QS exhaust. The fill will be accessible in the rear boot area. I figure tha I can hold a bit larger of a tank there, keep it cooler and not add this weight (about 8lbs/gallon) to the front...

More fun projects!

_________________
2003 IB MCS

 

Actually, the total weight of the system is only 6 pounds. That was a prime consideration when goin from the prototype to production. The pump is small but effective, and the water lines were reduced from 6 to 3. The reservoir is the right capacity. Because the system is closed, and is only cooling the intercooler intake charge, it doesn't require huge reservoir capacity. The pump rate was opitmized to prevent the water from moving too fast through the heat exchange process, but fast enough to keep a cool supply of water in the intercooler.

It is a closed system, with its own water supply.

caddman - no spigot necessary! All you need are a few bags of ice for the track. Throw a bag of ice on top of the intercooler and leave the key on while the car is in the paddock. The pump is a key-on hot, so it will run with the motor off. Within a few minutes, the entire system will be ice cold (giving you coooler than ambient intake temps). This only lasts for about 60 seconds, which is great for a drag strip or autocross, but not much else.

Hope that helps!

Randy

 

Sounds like much thought went into this.

6lbs, dedicated water supply, key-on hot... Most excellent!!!



_________________
2003 IB MCS

 

Lol i thought about that today, thats one of its advantage being small capacity...

After i spoke with you on the phone today it cleared up and temps warmed back up to usuall temps for here, and the intake air temps drops are wonderful just every day driving i got about 60 degree drop, better that you results, myabe due to loctation, humidity etc... All i know im Very please..No dyno runs yet hope to next week....

 

Also that was normal driving, ill be using my datalogger on the dragon trip , to see what kind of temps i get on hard driving....I still think its gonna be awesome....

Have you thought about a possible over cooling in the winter, causing it to sweat on inside if the cooler, aka causeing water in engine, or is it going to be a smalll irrellivant problem, probably a more of an issue for people in a real cold climate and high humidity, i wont have that much of a problem here due to it doesnt get that cold, but wondering.....!!


Great product Randy it exceeds my expectations, ill get some hard driving runs on it this weekend, and hopefully some dynos next week....

Also i havent posted the dyno numbers on the header yet, so kinda keep that under wraps, i want to make sure the production holds what i got from the prototype..... Thanks