"There's no need to bash the stock Mini product to make a case for upgrading to a Quaife."

I think I'll have to agree with that statement. I had a 2005 S with LSD (15%, GP intercooler) and now have a 2008 w/LSD. It's no secret that the 2008 has quite a bit more torque early on hence more torque steer. I only have 80 miles on the car so I'm still being pretty gentle with it. If I remember, a 5th Gear episode with the Euro Ford Focus turbo, it had a Quaife and they hated the way it was hunting all the time. They called it a "nervous" car. Sounds like mechanical LSD's all have some bad habits we have to live with! Being in the northeast and engaging is some autoX driving from time to time, I don't think I would buy a car this powerful without an LSD if one was available. To drive one without an LSD (saving $500) only to wait for some drivetrain problem to switch a Quaife in doesn't seem like a good trade to me. On the other hand it's a hobby right? Calling it a hobby makes all talk about money mute.
Ryephile: Great to see some really interesting posts about r53 / r56.

 

My point here is trying to find a way to improve the steering feel of the R56. I've clearly stated the factory LSD on an R56 is very good for auto-x and track use versus an open diff, however it's simply not as good feeling on the street as an R53. I'll admit my perceptions are awake, but in no way am I over-hyping the relativism and that shouldn't give others an excuse to discount my desire for a more pleasurable driving experience.

I'll point out again that my turbo-R53 had upwards of 260wLb-Ft of torque with an open diff and lowered suspension. You could literally let go of the wheel and hit the throttle and it would track straight; zero torque steer. The excuse that the R56 has more torque and thus more torque steer is simply incorrect for those that have owned or driven high torque R53's.

pmello brings up a great point; I'm not here to entertain my financial investments; cars are a hobby for me. I don't need to make the pragmatic or economically smart choice. Foregoing the factory LSD in lieu of spending 2x for a more satisfying piece that will come out eventually is worth it all.

 

All we need is someone to get a Quaife for an r56 and give it a whirl! I agree with you about the open diff for both cars. I was only speaking about the stock LSD's. It would also be nice if the stock lock ratio was more than 30% too. I think its going to be a tall order for the Quaife to handle like an open diff but it might handle better than the factory one! I need that extra traction of an LSD though to pull me back up to speed. It must be because I suck as a smooth driver. I like to take people out (auotX) with me to see the look on their faces after a few violent braking zones and bursts of exceleration they are either sick or amazed or both (with the car)! I think it's know as "stupid fast". The whole smooth thing is not possible for me (I suck). We all know that smooth IS fast and someone that can drive smooth will not take that big time hit in a car without an LSD. If your driving for feel I might have to agree whole heartedly with you.

 

Ryan,

I understand what you are talking about with the feel of steering in the R56. When I managed to kill my '06, I ordered an '07 (with sports suspension and factory LSD) . The first thing I noticed, other than the torque-steer, was the general vagueness in the steering. The Sport button helps considerably in diminishing the feeling that it wants to wander, but the feel still wasn't as "crisp" as I wanted. After much thought and reading what you and others have to say about the steering, I thought that I had to make some changes. So I was up in your vicinity this past weekend and had the PSRS installed (at 9500 miles on the car) and also swapped the sports suspension for Koni coilovers, dropping the car only approximately 3/4". Before I headed home we got the car in the hands of someone who really knew how to align the MINI. During the drive back home, I became convinced that the steering feel is now very nearly as good as that of my "old" R53. I no longer had to engage the "sport" button to get the car to feel like it wasn't wandering around. When I do hit the sports button, it gets even more "solid."

Also the torque-steer seems to be much less, perhaps because of the added caster from the PSRS (we set it to the lesser of the two settings, giving about 3/4 of a degree more caster). If you and I are in the same place one of these days, I would be more than happy to let you take it out and see how well you like the set-up.

Cheers,

Paul

 

Great to hear the PSRS and subtle lowering helped the steering feel!

How exactly did you install your PSRS's? Are they oriented halfway between full caster and full kick-up? Also, where did you get the Koni coilovers? I haven't heard they have a model out for the R56 yet. I would love to take you up on your test drive offer! Perhaps we can work something out come springtime when I take my R53 out of the garage; I'm sure you'd get a kick out of taking that for a spin.

Cheers,
Ryan

 

What alignments specs did you wind up using?

 

I got the Koni coilovers from Outmotoring, you can find them on their website. I purchased them quite awhile ago, just before it turned rotten cold for the winter, so I leapt at the opportunity to get them on while we had everything apart while installing the PSRS. They were put together by Truesports, the main Koni distributer in Ohio. They are adjustable at the top of the strut, ala the yellow Koni Sport model. That is fine on the fronts, but requires taking the rears off the car to access the adjuster. That can be inconvenient, but I set them near the mid-range on the rears before installation, so I can still play with the adjuster on the fronts. I have done similar with adjustables I have used in the past on my classic minis. I think I have hit a good adjustment, so should not have to take them off unless I find it necessary after my first track session in April. They ride firm, but not at all harsh. After one week and approx 400 miles on them, I am quite happy.

We set the PSRS at the lower of the two settings, gaining approx 3/4 degree more caster. The other setting was supposed to give 1.5 degrees of additional caster and I thought that might be more than I wanted. I would say that there is now slightly more effort to steer away from center, and the return to center is stronger. This, alone, seems to improve the steering feel. I have noticed decreased lift on acceleration and less dive on braking. In my view, the overall improvement was worth the $ and sweat (even in the winter in a garage in Detroit).

Fireman asked about the alignment settings: (I also installed Ireland adjustable camber plates up front, and since I was lowering a bit, I used adjustable rear control arms to keep camber in control) I wanted a good street setting on alignment, but a bit off of what is "factory spec." I was concerned with holding inside tire wear to a minimum, as the car is normally driven daily on the street by my significant other.

Front toe out: .05 degree (both sides)
Front camber: -1.5 degrees (with camber plates it was easy to balance side to side.)
Caster: 4.0 degrees (not adjustable other than by removing the PSRS and reinstalling them)

Rear camber: -1.8 (also easy to obtain with adjustable rear arms)
Rear toe: 0

The car turns in like nobody's business, crisp and sharp. Slalom is incredibly smooth in transition.

All-in-all, I am really happy with what we did with the suspension. I feel the Koni's make for a good streetable ride if one keeps his eyes open for Michigan and Ohio potholes. On the highway it is a dream. The car drives straight, doesn't wander or tramline on grooved or other weird pavement and is solid!

And, what is neatest about all this??? By reading posts here, paying attention to what folks that I trust are saying, and heeding the inner voice that tells me I want a car that is good on track, comfortable on the road and easy to maintain, I was able to make informed choices to get stuff that helped me meet that goal, as well as fix those niggling slight deficiences that come with the R56's steering (Note: this is not R56 bashing!!!!!) Plus, reading what all is involved with installing the PSRS, I was able to realize that I wasn't going to be able to do this myself in the garage even though I have an intimate knowledge of which end of a wrench means business. Thank you, Ryan and thank you NAM!!!

I don't really miss my 06 JCW R53 anymore, may it rest in peace!

Paul

 

It is interesting to note the PSRS seems to increase anti-lift/dive geometry on the Mini (or at least can do this depending on how it is set up). The ALK for the WRX actually decreased the anti-lift/dive to essentially zero (lowered the rear attachment point of the front L-arm closer to the ground, essentially making the L-arm parallel to the ground). Although it was a source of much discussion on NASIOC, and the name "anti-lift Kit" seemed to imply an increase in this geometry, it was not the case.

IIRC, on the WRX this was done to improve the ability to apply power out of a corner by reducing the stiffening effect of the anti- geometry. I had one on the WRX and it worked great, but even the "comfort" version was noticeable over significant imperfections in the road or RR tracks. I would have even sworn it had less lift than with the stock suspension pieces, but again this was the source of much discussion. It definitely seemed to have more dive after the ALK was installed.

Anyway, it's just interesting to note the PSRS seems to work differently than the ALK in this respect.

-JL

 

--->paulsminis: Great review and I'm thrilled to hear your R56 feels and handles excellent, and it's awesome that you found the info here on NAM helpful!

 

Excellent review! I've been considering a lot of the same parts and what you said about the highway driving improvements has me thinking that maybe I'm on the right track!

Thanks for writing all that up.