Quaife has had their ATB LSD available for the R53 MCS for a while now. I have a few questions for those in the know:

1) Is the R53 Quaife diff compatible with the R56 MCS tranny?
2) If not, then does Quaife have any plans on an R56 MCS ATB LSD?
3) If so, then what is the timeframe for the R56 diff?

If a Quaife is available, or will be soon, then there is no reason to get an R56 MCS with the horrible factory clutch pack diff unless someone needs a track-car R56 immediately. I must say the clutch-pack factory diff is quite good on the racetrack, however it's a miserable disaster on the street. It robs steering feel and adds massive torque steer. I had a chance to drive an R56 w/out factory LSD tonight and it had way better steering feel than I ever did in my '07 MCS w/factory LSD. Quaife diffs, for those that don't know, maintain "open diff" steering feel but have fantastic grip.

Thanks!
Ryan

 

go to the source..... Send the manufacturer an e-mail.

Matt

 

I did just that Matt; waiting to hear a response from them. In the meantime I was wondering if anyone here had some direct info. At worst this thread will generate some interest in getting a better diff than the factory clutch-pack.

 

R56: I have not gotten a response yet from Quaife after two emails. Concerning an unrelated matter w/ my Audi, Quaife was quick w/ answers.
I do hope they will offer one soon!

 

Interesting; thanks for your insight!

 

Interesting that you think the stock LSD is "quite good" on the track, I found it to be quite lacking after a few sessions on R compound tires.

My local track (NHIS) has a hairpin right with a double apex uphill exit that won't allow you to straighten the wheel completely for a hundred feet or so. It's a challenging section (lug in 3rd to start the hill) & real tester for LSD's. I find the Mini's LSD no better than the juice clutch LSD in my old car, it smokes the inside wheel for most of the hill. While much better than an open diff, I think it still only transfers about 30% of the torque to the outside wheel, with the rest of the power going up in smoke. It's the only part of the track that the Mini really gives up ground to the other cars out there (particularly thr Porsches & AWD cars). That's not the only section that the Mini spins the wheels on, but it's certainly the most noticable. If the quaife truly transfers > 50% I would be interested in the swap too.

 

The MINI's clutch pack LSD is rated at 25% lock. I ran a set of Hoosier RS304's on my R56 last summer at Gingerman raceway; a raceprepped R53 and even a GP couldn't come close to the grip mine had out of the corners, it was impressive, no "one wheel peel" at all. If you're running a stiff front sway bar or wimpy rear suspension then even a Quaife can't help you. Gingerman also has a tough double apex uphill decreasing radius off-camber corner; that was the corner the R56 really shines over an R53.

If you're comparing the R56 strictly to Evo's and Porsche Turbo's then you're on a different page completely, and frankly they're not realistic comparisons being they're AWD with a full compliment of torque-biasing diffs.

All that said, the Quaife for the R53 has an 8:1 bias, meaning it'll transfer 8x the torque to the outside wheel relative to the inside wheel.

 

My #1 wish list next mod is going to be the Quaife assuming they do one for the R56. I will continue to pester them for a response!

 

That's good to know. In the meantime I would be really interested in hearing whether anyone has been able to increase the stockers torque handling ability with a preload adjustment or some other simple trick. What fluid were you running? The Mini dealer doesn't know the specs on the stock stuff, so I'll check with Redline for a recommendation prior to the 1st track day in '08.

I'm running it bone stock with the factory sport suspension and am generally impressed with it's performance on the track. I throw on some track wheels & tires (Nitto NT-01's) and it runs pretty good.

 

Good question regarding the preload adjustment on the factory clutch-pack!

I wonder if it could be tweaked not only for greater lock, but also smoother engagement?

 

I would think the 2 are mutually exclusive, but I'm no expert. Any high torque clutch pack units that I've seen tend to bind in certain situations like slow turns in parking lots. There may be other detrimental effects on a FWD, like more push, but I have no personal experience to base that on.

That being said, a cheap mod to the existing unit is a more attractive alternative budgetwise than an expensive teardown and install of the Quaife unit, good as it may be. The stock LSD is good bang for the buck but we'll see how long it will last in track conditions with its "loose" engagement. I usually do 4-10 track days a year and I've already noticed some degradation in the stocker after 4 days last year. Some other units (like the Nissan NISMO LSD) actually have an internal adjustment capability, but that's just wishful thinking for an OEM I suppose...

 

This brings up the next questions about the factory clutch pack LSD...exactly how long can we expect these things to last? Obviously the clutches are going to eventually wear out as they will with any clutch based LSD but will there be some sort of replacement available or will you be SOL?
Mike

 

For a pic of the stock LSD from GKN you need to google GKN super LDS with something like this (I dont want to anger the admins with a direct link). gkndriveline.com/drivelinecms/opencms/en/products/torque-management/passive-tmds/torque-sensing/super-lsd there is a pic with a description. It doesn't look like its easly tweeked also something about it using cones. I don't see any clutch packs to adjust.

 

Any clutch pack unit (cone or otherwise) can be rebuilt and I'm sure the parts will be available as necessary through the dealer. Unless you're pushing it on the track regularly I doubt the service interval would be less than 100,000 mi. anyway. Afterall, a "lifetime fill" of gear oil will protect everything forever... Right?

 

Good link. Please note the "available preload feature" bullet on page 3 of the pdf brochure:

http://www.gkndriveline.com/drivelin...ue_english.pdf

That bodes well, maybe we're getting somewhere here afterall.

 

I just found a great reference article for the pros & cons of each type:

http://www.grmotorsports.com/backiss...-equations.php

Very well written and easy to understand explaination of the various LSD technologies. I think GKN bought out Tochigi Fuji Sanyo (TFS) and they are the original manufacturer of the "Super LSD" identified as Conical Ring type in the article. Good stuff.

 

"I had a chance to drive an R56 w/out factory LSD tonight and it had way better steering feel than I ever did in my '07 MCS w/factory LSD."


-How was the torque steer without the LSD, sounds like for the daily grind the open diff may be the ticket.

 

Torque steer hierarchy goes like this, from zero to arm-wrenching:

R53, slammed, open diff
R53, lowered, factory LSD
R56, factory height, open diff
R56, lowered, factory LSD
R56, factory height, factory LSD
Neon SRT-4!

For the R56 crowd, lowering the suspension and having an open diff is the hot-ticket for a street car.

 

Thanks for the "guide" , heard the SRT-4's grandfather, the OMNI GLH was a nutter too!

 

No prob. Yes the Omni GLH and GLHS have their reputation for good reason!

 

My folks used to have a regular Omni. Lots of torque steer even without the
GLH package
Should call it the Omni GLHTTRWYSOTGATTLWYLO
Goes like hell to the right when you step on the gas and to the left when you lift off.

 

I've driven a lot of sporty/fast fwd cars over the years and I really don't find the torque steer all that bad on my stock height LSD equipped MCS. Maybe turning wrenches all day hasn't left me all that limp wristed, but compare the MCS w/ LSD to an LSD equipped SAAB 93/Viggen and you'll see what some real torque steer is.
GLHS tons of rowdy torque steer or my last hotrod, a cranked up turbo sprint w/ unequal axles...

"...however it's a miserable disaster on the street. It robs steering feel and adds massive torque steer..."
You would probably never stoop to using a condom either

I've driven Quaife equipped cars, they are great, had it been offered from the factory for $1000 vs. the $500 for the regular LSD, I'd certainly have shelled out the extra... but to void the warranty on the gearbox and add an extra ~$2000+ ... I'll give it a few years & likely that's why the manufacturers are taking their time as well.

 

What is the reason for LSD increasing torque steer? Intuitively, I would have guessed the opposite.

 

I'm glad you got a laugh out of this. I take my safety seriously.

Regarding the torque steer, you're rather proving my point. A GLHS is monstrous, whereas an LSD equipped R56 has marked torque steer, and an open or Quaife R53 has zero torque steer. If you've never driven an R53 then you're missing the reason for me starting this thread. The differences probably come down to the subtle suspension geometries or different transmission internals, but the differences are real, obvious, and have nothing to do with you being reckless in bed.



--->rkw: The reason clutch-pack LSD's induce torque steer and numb the steering feel is from the way the clutch engages. The diff has to "see" a certain amount of speed difference between the two axles before the clutches abruptly engage, yanking the steering as the tires struggle for grip. It's a clunky situation indeed.

 

I have driven a lot of R53's, and the suspension differences are significant, most notably the R53 starts at the same ride height a lowered R56 ends up at. Any R53 with a Quaife's most likely going to have had further lowering & suspension work.

Clearly your nerves are as delicate as your sense of touch.
The stock torque steer with the LSD isn't all that bad, it certainly isn't ripping the wheel from your hands, but it does rip around corners better then any open diff. I think you're grossly exagerating/misleading people by claiming that it induces "massive torque steer" & "yanking the steering" ...

There's no need to bash the stock Mini product to make a case for upgrading to a Quaife.