You gys crack me up.

I cant believe how many people on this thread are speaking with such a sense of authority on forced induction and what a 1.6 liter motor is and is not capable of and at the same time remain completely clueless.

I can show you 1.3 liter motors that actually have smaller physical dimensions than the MCS motor and are making over 600 HP reliably with turbochargers.

400 HP is almost boringly easy to make with a motor that size.

With the proper fuel and ignition management, it could be done with as little as 18 pounds of boost....maybe less.

Give it about a year for serious performance entheusiasts to get hold of second hand MCS' that they dont mind blowing up in the name of research and development.

Im gonna pull this thread back up and make some of you realize how ridiculous you sounded.

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hey dude we are guys,put your money where your mouth is at.

 

Sorry about anything if it was me Mark, I am just trying to get my point across...

 

Punisher-

I could be wrong, but I think that what most of the people on this thread are saying is not that a reliable 400 HP MINI is impossible. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I am reading it, most everyone is saying that:

a) They have no real desire to possess a 400 HP MC or MCS (since most of us are using these as daily drivers as well as all-around fun machines).

b) Serious sidework would need to be done, most notably to transmission and drivetrain, if one were to strap on a turbo that would kick it up into that HP realm, making the price of such a setup pretty ridiculous to most of us(i.e. the "might as well buy an SRT-4 or Evo VIII" train of thought).

c) If'n such a turbo were to become available anytime in the near future, it ain't coming out of Diamond's shop.

With that in mind, please, feel free to pull up any threads in the future for ridicule usage.

Cheers!

 

Excellent summary of the state of affairs in this thread.

In case anyone cares, I have some knowledge of forced-induction cars, I've worked closely with the tuners that did my M3 and New Beetle (see links below). I did a lot of research to make sure both cars will be reliable enough to take to the track and as daily drivers. The M3 has about 20K miles on it since the supercharger was added and about 4K miles are at the race track.

Yes, you can build a drag racer motor that puts out a LOT of power, but they are designed to last a 1/4 to 1/2 mile (2 runs). Note that the original post claimed Diamond Racing "are going for a reliable 410hp".

Links some of my other cars:
330WHP New Beetle
340WHP M3

 

all I know is I drove a works MCS at the dealers last week after some prodding from a poster here.....you got to be kidding me, almost 6K or whatever after the installation for a car that is barely quicker than my MCS...it may be 200 HP, but the performance increase is hardly anything to jump up and down for.....no difference at all IMO under 3000 rpms, but the works car I think had the disadvantage of the heavy 17" superlights over my MCS with much lighter 16" & yokos.....there were modest performance gains at 4000 rpms and above at the top end of the gears....but geeze, what a rip off IMO...for $6K, surely there must be more...lol ! I'd love to see what Diamond has to offer, everything that has been offered here with mostly pulley reductions, etc...really adds very little to the performance of the stock MCS, which is ok since IMO if that is all you get I'd rather focus on improving the suspension and handling till something really worthwhile comes along when my MCS is closer to the warranty being up....cheers

 

Wether or not someone would want a 400 HP MINI is a completely different story.

However, it can be done, it can be reliable and it will last for more than a 1/4 mile at a time.

I have a 1300cc motor that puts out over 500HP and does so from first gear to the rev limiter in 6th gear with absolutely no reliability or driveability issues.

Thats the beauty of a turbo and a motor built for boost. Its docil and calm as a sleeping kitten until you pour the coals on. Then the monster comes alive.

 

Finnaly someone who knows what he is talking about.

 

Punisher, please provide some details on your setup for your 1300cc motor. What motor? What car? What "kit"? What price? What else other than motor upgrades do you have to have? How many miles have you put on this setup?

Thanks

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Sleepless

 

I think Punisher runs that turbo setup on his motorcycle.

I will try and talk to Diamond later today and see where they stand...hopefully I will have some more information for you guys...

 

Yes, it is a motorcycle motor.

Its even harder to make big power with a motorcycle motor though. The reason why is because even though CC displacement might be similar, the actual physical size of the engine is smaller. Thats means that all the engines internal components are smaller. The block is smaller. The cylinder walls between bores are smaller, the crank is smaller, the connecting rods are smaller.....you get my point.

Smaller means much harder to make stronger. If I was dealing with a car engine, where the components were twice the size, I could really make some sick power.

The sequential transmission of a sportbike can be held in the palms of your two hands. The MINIS tranny must be 4 times the size. I have no doubt that the MINIS tranny can be made to withstand whatever HP you could throw at it.

Cars are so much easier to make fast and make big HP with them. You have so much more room to work with for electronics and mechanical parts i.e. turbos, header design, wastegates and so on.


You want an easy way to make 400 HP with a MINI? Here you go.

Pull the motor.

Disassemble the motor, send the pistons to JE pistons in California. Have them design a turbo piston from the factory slugs. They'll do things like drop the ring land further down the piston, increase dome thickness, thicker wristpin bore and so on. Probably cost in the $500 area

Then you send the rods to Carrillo. They will make a set of their H beam rods with heavy duty ARP rod bolts. Around $1000

The hardest part about making reliable HP would be providing enough fuel with the stock fuel system and spark with the stock ignition. So, you dont worry about it. Use aftermarket.

Pull the stock fuel injectors from the throttle bodies. Add a set of Bosche 72 .lb injectors driven from an aftermarket engine management system such as Autronics, Motec, Accell DFI.....any number of vendors that make these systems. They also control the ignition as well.

These are highly sophisticated engine management systems that run closed loop advanced Lambda O2 monitoring, sequential fuel injection and iginition, 3d datalogging, complete mapability of the fuel curve and ignition lead times. Much more capable of the stock electronics and so sophisticated that you can idle around town all day long without a hicup or go to the track and blast around at insane speeds. Hook a laptop to your ECU and monitor your cars performance from the comfort of your air conditioning.

The turbo system its self would be childs play.

A Garrett GT 35 dual ball bearing turbo, Tial 40mm wastegate, HKS sequential blow off valve and either a good water injection system like the one made by Aquamist or an intercooler mounted up front.

Viola....a bit simplified (because my fingers get tired from typing) but you get the idea.

HP and performance are just a matter of dedication and persistance drivin by the will power and knowledge to make something happen.

OH, money dont hurt either.

 

hey punisher,why don't you go buy a mini and show us how easy it is,tell us with pictures,we are tried of stories.

 

I really couldnt care less what you're tired of.

I personally have no interest in doing the research and development nor funding the project in the first place.

If I want to go really fast, I wont waste my time in a car. Ill swing a leg over my bike and smack down any four wheel vehicle on the planet that wants to pull along side of me on the highway.

Im simply stating what can be done if someone has the inclination, the knowledge and the money. You people are making it sound like its rocket science or impossible magic. Its actually pretty simple stuff.

 

Punisher wrote:

Thanks for your thorough understanding of the MINI engine.

Out of curiosity, do you have a website for this "500 hp" bike? This guy goes over 215 mph on his 200+ whp bike, you must hold a land speed record or something, right?

http://www.turborick.com/main.html



But, I digress, this thread isn't about motorcycles, it's about a highly dubious claim by a highly dubious poster with absolutely zero evidence or credibility to back it up. Let's see some dyno plots of this turbo MINI.

 

Thats Rick Yiacoucis bike. I am very familiar with his motorcycle and his accomplishments.

While TurboRick was fast and a pioneer in what he was doing, his bike was a dinosaur compared to mine and hundreds of other bikes being built today.

By todays standards if all you're capable of is 215 MPH, you might as well take your bike home and park it. His 215 MPH pass was at Bonneville with unlimited room. The current record holder in that class is John Noonan. He has run 246 MPH at Bonneville with a turbo system making about 150 less HP than I am currently making.
Ive run 232 MPH in less than a mile on my bike. That was with a smaller turbo than I have now and a stock ECU. Im now making 150 HP more than I was then. Ultimately the bike should be capable of speeds well over 260 MPH......if the tires dont come off the rims or the body work doesnt blow off.



Heres a timeslip from the first day at the track with the bike. This was the third and last pass. No clutch tuning, no boost controller, no wheelie bars on a street legal tire and only 16 PSI of boost.




I have posted pics of my motorcycle on other threads......but since you asked.







I never claimed to be an expert on MINIS. Ive never even opened the hood on one. Theres no difference though, its all just a matter of physics. Engines are big air pumps, get enough air and fuel into them and theres no limit to the power you can make.

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HARMINI, That was a very well-written and well-intentioned post. Hope they are listening.

 

>>HARMINI, That was a very well-written and well-intentioned post. Hope they are listening.

Thanks Chris. If they truly are listening, they will keep their fingers off the keyboard for awhile.

 

Punisher - Cool bike and I appreciate what your are saying, but I do think you are grossly underestimating what it takes to convert an MCS to a reliable 400HP.

Comparing your bike to the MCS is apples and oranges. Your bike started out as a very high performance machine while the MINI is basically a fun and economical car. It's components were not designed for a lot of power to keep the price down.

No one said you couldn't make a reliable 400HP 1.6L engine; possibly even for $4500. The old F1 turbo engines where 1.5L and made around 1000HP! But, that indeed was rocket science to make them reliable for 2hrs!

The reason I brought up my Turbo New Beetle is because it is quite close to the MCS in many ways (like price and size). Adding the turbo to a 2.8L VR6 to make around 400HP at the crank is not hard, and HPA even makes 600HP version. But, you have to upgrade the clutch and the transmission to make the car reliable. The total cost was well over $10K. BTW - The rocket science part is in the engine management software; both my M3 and Beetle are in the shop today getting software tweaks, it is a never ending story when you get deep into performance upgrades.

This is all fun in theory, I'm just going to wait and see what tuners come up with. Should be interesting.

BTW - I wish Diamond Racing lots of success; I have nothing against Tracy or his company, I simply suggested that they improve the credibility, like by posting some hard facts (dyno runs, track times, etc.).

Bye

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Sleepless

 

Punisher, that's one monster bike you have there! Did you have to beef up the drivetrain at all? Any additional cooling for the engine?

Those would be my major concerns for a super MINI, what are you going to do with all that heat and can the drivetrain take the power?

 

As a newbie here, I would suggest that DR provide a product plan, or at least an expected date for this near 400 hp machine. To say that you've already attained those numbers on a dyno yet make no committed dates does not help credibility. Any details? What tranny did this run through? Specs?
To say it can be done is useless - a man can walk on the moon, but that doesn't mean anyone here will be doing it, much less any time soon.
The bike comparison is just goofy. The parts may be bigger, but you're also hauling around 2-3000 pounds extra. Besides, the MC has a glovebox AND cupholders.
Any time you claim to wring 3x from a stock motor (or is it?) you've got some 'splaining to do. That's not an unreasonable request, is it?

 

>> >>Let's just say if that if you are off the street trying to get a smog and the tech recognizes an aftermarket part without a EO number you'll be seeing a smog refereee
>>
>>I've already had to see a smog refereee for my moss mini intake which had no CARB #. I'm going to get a legal intake in the future like the AEM of K&N intake. When I had to get my smog check they put it on the rollers.
>>
>>Give the Diamond Racing guys a break! Theyre really cool guys and they have some nice MINIs.

Did they make you pull the intake? Did you buy your car used or out of state or did a cop do a tech inspect and write you up?

Under the current smog laws in CA I would say that it can be done but it's going to be expensive and that cost has to be pass to someone. Simple economics. CA has a lot of minis so if it's good enough for CA it's good enough for the Fed. That's one way of looking at it.

 

>>Open mind? MINI websites are the worst when it comes to this. Just a bunch of old farts who think they know a lot of s^@t.

Hey, give an old fart a break! , but I'm not interested in taking on CARB, or leaving parts on the pavement. So I'll wait to see what Diamond Racing, or anyone else, comes out with.

 

Stay tuned until the next SEMA...that is the best I can offer you...

 

Are they going to run a dyno test in their booth?

Just because they're going to be at SEMA does not substantiate any performance claims.

 

Punisher,

That's a mighty impressive scooter! Must be a handful at speed.

As I said, I'll be at SEMA and I'll bring my BS meter to see what's up with this MINI "turbo kit":