What would we need a turbo for? I was just thinking about supercharging the supercharger. We already have a smaller pully in the market place, now just think about and intercooler, and you can get more pull from the pully, which means more psi, which means more hp. Although I would love a supercharged, turbocharged mini

 

>>Well said. Thanks for posting, Tracy. I'm looking forward to seeing what you guys come up with for my standard cooper. I have to correct you on one thing, however: We live in the Golden State. Florida is the Sunshine state :smile:
>>

Thanks for the correction.

Tracy

 

>>For all of you that doubt the BIG numbers, think of it this way. You know what the engine is capable of, 380+hp. Given that, I am sure there are going to be kits that are going to offer a reliable 300-350hp...
>>
>>For anyone who is interested to hear more on the CARB situation, check out this month's issue of Sport Compact Car Magazine. They have a whole article about how you won't pass an emissions test if you do not have CARB certified parts in your car. California will also do a "under the hood" check as part of the emmisions process now.

Does that mean if they find an intake under there, your not passing?

 

allow me to throw in my 2 c worth of lay-persons opinion:

JCW and MINI/BMW spent a huge amount of time and effort to develop and test the reliability of an upgrade to only 200 hp. I think there are several reasons for this: moving beyond 200 hp in an upgrade can probably be done, but it will be hard to do so without affecting reliability, and / or driveability.
In addition, I may be missing something, but I really fail to see the point of a MINI that has more than say 250 horses. How will you put that power to the pavement? I think you would stand to gain so much more if you put money in suspension, brakes, etc... than into more than 1/4k horses. Maybe also spend some time and money to lighten the car.

Hhhhhmmmm. As to two other considerations:
Turbo vs SC: I still see SC as a fundamentally better solution for a small displacement engine, than TC: TC gives more top end horses, but it's hard for a 1.6L to make an engine that will have lots of low end torque. When will you truly need lots of top end horses over low end grunt?

As to which engine is more suitable for working in breathing enhancements (also in relation to the reliability issue of such modifications):

MCS vs MC engine:
the MCS engine is fundamentally far more suited to breathing enhancements than the MC (in addition to the concerns others voiced about the 5-speed or CVT tranny's of the MC), and the MC engine is optimized for natural aspiration. These two engines are far more different than most people think:

here are the primary differences between the MC and MCS engine:

1-MCS has oil cooling jets to underside of pistons
2-MCS has oil pump with higher oil flow driven directly from crank, and differnt oil flow paths
3-MCS has modified pistons from hi-temp alloys with anodized ring grooves and lenticular combustion chamber bowl in piston.
4-MCS has much lower compression ratio of 8.3:1
5-MCS has drop-forged vs cast (MC) crank with 3-layer bearings
6-MCS has forged conrods (vs sintered in MC)
7-MCS has very different cylinder head from MC, with different gas flow and different valve geometry (modified stronger tandem rockers for exhaust valves)
8-MCS exhaust valves are made from Inconel. Valve stems are thinner below guides for increased flow.

The above are only the most relevant differences, but there are many others.

Ok, in addition, I can't see how a Turbo engine will be able to easily meet the consumption and emissions target of the MCS let alone MC: a turbo has distinct disadvantages in terms of emissions: it takes longer to warm the catalytic converter.

All that aside, it will be interesting to see how well a turbo'd MC engine might do (or MCS engine), in terms of power, grunt, reliability, consumption and emissions.
One of the truly remarkable acchievement of the JCW kit is that EPA consumption ratings have not changed!

 

Yeah um I have one too I just didnt want to tell anyone either.


--
Cheese

 

I pride myself with giving people the benefit of the doubt, but...
My BS alarm is ringing off the hook

 

My first post!

CA already has the visual check as part of the smog check and now comes the rollers. In some parts of California, there is something called Smog II, which will required the vehicle to be placed on rollers(similar to a dyno) and subjected to simulated road conditions. AWD cars will be going to smog only stations that are manned by stated employees.

And a non stock intake without a carb number will cause the car to fail the emissions test.

Welcome to the golden state!

 

LMAO!
Some hilarious comments in this thread.

I'm with the guy whose BS Alarm is ringing off the hook.

Tracy tells us they have already surpassed the original claim of 387 hp.


MCSRob

 

>>I don't mean to point fingers just yet, but FOR HUNDRED HORSEPOWER out of an engine that is smaller than 2 liters?
>>

Mark

 

>>Be sure to read this article on the power that can be derived out of a 2.0L. Now granted they are running high-octane fuels and rebuild the engine a bit more but lots of power can be made from small displacements. Whether it is streetable is another issue all together but it can be done
>>
>>Mark

The post that started this thread promised a "reliable 410hp". I guess if one can get 410hp for 1/4 mile that is reliable to some limited set of people but it is not a definition shared by most.

To quote the article, "The engines last a long time, too, for drag race engines.

The Summit Sport Compact Series isn’t like the NHRA professional one. There are no engine rebuilds between rounds in Sport Compact; the Ecotec engine will make up to 80 runs before a rebuild.

"Granted, that’s only 20 miles but the reliability has been outstanding."

I stand corrected. You can drive 20 miles between rebuild. God, I could nearly get to work with that longevity.
_________________

 

Agreed....interested to hear more information about this project.

Mark

 

>>Everyone,
>> Given that the email that this thread started around was sent to a few individuals, myself included, I would recommend giving Diamond the benefit of the doubt on this. I know that they are working on some turbo solutions. Give them some time to unveil the details before passing judgement. In the meantime, I encourage you to send Tracy some email as I know that they would welcome inquiries on their products and constructive feedback.
>>
>>Mark

Yeah I got it, too. I am really psyched to see what they come up with.
:smile:

 

>>Be sure to read this article on the power that can be derived out of a 2.0L. Now granted they are running high-octane fuels and rebuild the engine a bit more but lots of power can be made from small displacements. Whether it is streetable is another issue all together but it can be done

 

I'm certainly open to a "wait and see what comes out" approach.

However, I highly advise the folks at diamini to improve their credibility by not posting utter BS. So far, there has been too much BS posted by diamini (strut bar claims and BrakeMan brake claims that are utter non-sense for example). I don't mind if one says these parts (strut bar and BrakeMan brakes) are mainly for show, but to make outlandish claims about how great of perf upgrade they are is not going cause me to "give them the benefit of the doubt" when they say they are going to have a reliable turbo with 300+RWHP! Again, if the claim is for racing purposes where it is expected to have to rebuild the motor et al after every couple of drag race runs or a couple hours of racing, that is another story.

Right now, it seems that leaking information about this turbo setup is mostly a marketing ploy to get people to buy parts (like eye candy strut braces and brakes) from them. This I don't like at all.

Why did I post this here rather than emailing diamini, because this is a public forum and they chose their actions/posts/BS publicly.

I'm done with this thread, let's wait and see what sort of turbo kit they sell...

 

I 100% agree Sleepless.

 

>>My first post!
>>
>>CA already has the visual check as part of the smog check and now comes the rollers. In some parts of California, there is something called Smog II, which will required the vehicle to be placed on rollers(similar to a dyno) and subjected to simulated road conditions. AWD cars will be going to smog only stations that are manned by stated employees.
>>
>>And a non stock intake without a carb number will cause the car to fail the emissions test.
>>
>>Welcome to the golden state!


Do most after market intakes have CARB numbers on them? Such as the typhoon? And what about the exhaust? I find it hard to believe there in no one in Cali driving around with no performance parts on their car.

 

You know sleepless all I can post and talk about is what I have experienced. All you can post and talk about is what you have experienced.

Now by all means you have the right to post what ever you want and say what ever you want. Because you are correct this is a public forum.

These forums are here to provide information to people. But, to say basically that I am Full of BS, is wrong. You may be able to DOG me out about my spelling or my grammer or even my lifestyle. (Married with two children.) It may tick you off that I left the Pacific North West to pursue my lifes dreams and goals. It may tick you off that I am able to get large salaries with no fromal education. It may even tick you off that I have multiple companies and ventures that I am active in.

So, until you have experienced what I have, walked in my shoes and seen what I have seen.

It is wrong of you to say I am full of it.

We have wasted heads, cams, wheels, brakes, tires. Spent many hours and lost lots of family time and money along with all the other tuners. All of which equal experience.

Now, you can go ahead and you voice you opinions, based on your experiences tell the public what you think will work, tell them what you have experienced.

But, do not tell myself or anybody they are full of it or there credibility stinks because you have different view point or opinions or experiences then others.

For that would be like when I came back from the first Gulf War. I shared my experiences with a Army tanker friend of mine and he with me. Now, his experiences were far more gruesome then mine. For I did not experience rounds penetrating my tank, bouncing around inside and being the only one from the team to survive like he did.

But, because I did not experience that, I did say, " Hey Jason you suck and have no credibility and he was full of B.S. because you survived", I did not say, "when it happens to you again tell then I will believe you, lier" or "YEAH RIGHT, RFLOL, when I experience that then I will believe you. But, until then you are full of B.S. my friend.

I just said, "WOW, I am glad you made it back. Good job and thanks for your sacrifices."

Motor On...

For technical questions contact:
tech@diamondracinggroup.com
_________________
Diamond Mini

 

>>For that would be like when I came back from the first Gulf War. I shared my experiences with a Army tanker friend of mine and he with me. Now, his experiences were far more gruesome then mine. For I did not experience rounds penetrating my tank, bouncing around inside and being the only one from the team to survive like he did.
>>
>>But, because I did not experience that, I did say, " Hey Jason you suck and have no credibility and he was full of B.S. because you survived", I did not say, "when it happens to you again tell then I will believe you, lier" or "YEAH RIGHT, RFLOL, when I experience that then I will believe you. But, until then you are full of B.S. my friend.
__________________________________________________ _____________________________

Diamini: OUCH! You make me feel bad for what Sleepless said. I agree with you.

 

This is not a forum of complete idiots (although some people are borderline). There is a handful of very technically knowledgable people here who post frequently. I dont think I need to name names but Diamond Racing Group doesnt come to mind. I'm not saying that you're not master mechanics/combustion engineers over there, I honestly know nothing about your operation other than visiting your webpage, which is full of seat covers, dash trims, and other assorted non technical items. Hey, thats fine. Everyones got to pay the bills somehow but I've always lumped you (in my mind) with MOSS Mini and not Helix MINISports or Randy's operation.

I have no issues with your credability as a citizen of your state, as the father of your children, or as a gulf war veteran. I have issues with your credability as a tuner. This forum has been babied by Randy and hes established a good relationship and thus credability. The same goes for Helix and we even get an occasional post or two from Al @ BMP (and now Casey!). Those guys up at Madness put together a kickass car for the C&D shootout. What have we got from you? second hand claims of 300whp and seatcovers.

Maybe you're too busy with your mutliple ventures to enlighten us with your Cooper S program and thats fine.... just don't expect second hand claims of 400 horsepower by a "tuner" thats known for having 2 CVTs to be taken as the gospel.



--
Cheese

 

>>This is not a forum of complete idiots (although some people are borderline). There is a handful of very technically knowledgable people here who post frequently. I dont think I need to name names but Diamond Racing Group doesnt come to mind. I'm not saying that you're not master mechanics/combustion engineers over there, I honestly know nothing about your operation other than visiting your webpage, which is full of seat covers, dash trims, and other assorted non technical items. Hey, thats fine. Everyones got to pay the bills somehow but I've always lumped you (in my mind) with MOSS Mini and not Helix MINISports or Randy's operation.
>>
>>I have no issues with your credability as a citizen of your state, as the father of your children, or as a gulf war veteran. I have issues with your credability as a tuner. This forum has been babied by Randy and hes established a good relationship and thus credability. The same goes for Helix and we even get an occasional post or two from Al @ BMP (and now Casey!). Those guys up at Madness put together a kickass car for the C&D shootout. What have we got from you? second hand claims of 300whp and seatcovers.
>>
>>Maybe you're too busy with your mutliple ventures to enlighten us with your Cooper S program and thats fine.... just don't expect second hand claims of 400 horsepower by a "tuner" thats known for having 2 CVTs to be taken as the gospel.
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>Cheese
>>

Yabbut, he's a VETERAN! Me, too. That only helps with the VA, for what that's worth.

 

You know who ever said we were creditable Tuners. I did not. That does have yet to be proven. But is that proved by the number of posts one makes to a forum? Or how many how toos one puts out? Or by how many off the self items one can put together to make kits?

One of the biggest "S" supporters is Randy. With what all he has done the how toos, etc. They are great. I am glad he has had the time to do all this work.

I never made the claims that we are top tuners. But, I know that we are. So, I am not too worried about the opinions of a few. Actually four. I have received more positive comments then negative ones.

When I had plenty of time on my hands I was posting all the time on this board. You know what the squeaky wheel always gets the grease. Nothing bad intended to anybody who post on this board.

But, what I did find out early on was that allot of people on this board do not own a MINI. I also know chat rooms and webpage’s are the bathroom walls of the internet. Meaning anybody can post anything, say what they want and the uneducated, uninformed people will believe them. Again MCO is a great forum, we need to thank Mark.

But, at the same time the thing that has drawn people to this board is the professionalism of its members.

I have never said we were "S" Tuning GODS. I have never said we are the experts. I do know for a fact our CVT's Kick some major A _ _! You know what for a CVT that gets only 85 HP to the wheel. I think there is allot of bias by a few "S" owners. Heck I know I would be ticked if an owned an "S" and a NASP CVT with 85 HP at the wheel stock either whooped up on me or gave me a run for my money.

Would it of been different if one of the other tuners said they got a Mini up over 350 HP? Would the response of been different?

But, we will never know because if they did or do they did not have enough B_ _ _ S to let people know.

So, you know one of my favorite authors said, Rule 12 "Throw down a challenge".

As for the C..Shootout. What ever...I am too busy enjoying my life and having fun playing with my Mini. Now if the only thing I had going for me was the MINI then things would be different.

Just imagine what we would be doing if this was the only thing we did and completely full time.

So, I am not too worried. The cream always rises to the top and if not. Well again I am too busy enjoying my life and having fun playing with my Mini.

If fellow Veterans can not take more pride in the service that they did this country then I am glad you are out and no longer serving.

 

>>>Yabbut, he's a VETERAN! Me, too. That only helps with the VA, for what that's worth.>>

Tell me you really didn't mean to come across the way your post sounds.
It's ridiculous enough that a discussion about tuning would involve past service to your country, but to say that being a Veteran only matters to the VA is absurd.

Please tell me you didn't mean it that way................ :???:

 

diamini wrote:

I'm glad you're having fun playing with your MINI, but please don't personally attack us. That's going directly against your post, now isn't it? :smile: You've got your hand on a market no one else is touching, the CVT. But we here on MCO never hear anything about it. Seems like a lost opportunity to show the community what you've got.


R

 

>>Would it of been different if one of the other tuners said they got a Mini up over 350 HP? Would the response of been different?
>>
>>But, we will never know because if they did or do they did not have enough B_ _ _ S to let people know.
>>
>>So, you know one of my favorite authors said, Rule 12 "Throw down a challenge".
>>
>>As for the C..Shootout. What ever...I am too busy enjoying my life and having fun playing with my Mini. Now if the only thing I had going for me was the MINI then things would be different.
>>

"Throw down a challenge." and then "as for the C&D shootout... whatever" in consecutive sentences! I don't believe you could be any more hypocritical. If other tuners said 350whp we might be skeptical but more apt to believe them. When someone says "bring it" Madness brings a bad *** street car, randy brings an equally well thought out rig, and BMP has Blue Thunder and a silver turbo car that I've actually touched. You bring a CVT with driving lights and and a checkered roof.

Quoting Dale Carnegie may get you friends and influence people but it wont make your CVT fast. The challenge has been thrown down. Bring it.

 

>>So, you know one of my favorite authors said, Rule 12 "Throw down a challenge".
>>
>>As for the C..Shootout. What ever...I am too busy enjoying my life and having fun playing with my Mini. Now if the only thing I had going for me was the MINI then things would be different.

No, body has told us to bring it on…we have not been invited to anything. We have not heard of the C & D Challenge, plus we were not invited.

So, hypocritical, NO. Nobody has even talked to us.

Ohh, BTW, did any of these cars attend the Shoot Out at Carlsbad Speed way a few weeks back? Did you know that a Stock Mini smoked every body. Uhh..No. Even though it did not happen understand my point.

We would be more then happy to attend some of these things. But, again only the select few in the know, know.

These other Tuners have other product lines, vehicles, outside capital that allows them to participate in more. But, do not let our lack of posting to the boards, spending 1000's of extra dollars when losing a head or regrinding a new cam take away from our participation in certain events.

Davbert I am glad you are a representative of Mini Madness. Which is great.

But, I have not said anything bad against anything that any of the other tuner/retailers have done or say or do. They all provide a great service.

mancheese-
Funny how you know the book and author but do not practice any of his teachings. There is a reason why that book still sells tons of copies even though it was first published before the average age of the MCO member.

I guess these guys who do this stuff need to let us know. I am fortunate or not, based on the posts of the past few days, that I have been able to participate as much as I had.

Even though it was heated at times it can still be fun.

Good or Bad.

I guess as long we do not become to big of jerks.

I would still buy you guys a beer if our Minis happened to be at the same place. Because, I still would not know who all of you are. You may not accept it because you know my name. But none the less...
_________________
Tracy Hemstreet