If you really want that boy-racer look, the SRT-4 is for you... hahaha. Kidding. I was seriously in the market for one, but when the dealers around here wanted $25-26K for a car that stickered at $21K, I told them to suck eggs. Why should I pay $4-5K over invoice for the privilege of owning a hotrod Neon? Not even DC's financing company would carry that kind of surcharge, which means coughing that up out-of-pocket...

The SRT-4 is fast and very capable in the twisties if you play to its strengths - which is why it has one many shootouts in the car mags for compact cars. It's not the most refined, but it's one fast car.

IMHO, you have to know what you're racing if you're going to race - and I'm not a giant fan of street racing anymore, but if you decide to try and take a car, you should know what your car is capable of and what the other car is capable of... assuming driver ability is equal (and it rarely is, but one must assume), there's no WAY that a Cooper S is going to take an SRT-4. Now, if the guy/girl can't shift or control wheelspin, a MUCH slower car could take the SRT-4.

Speaking of sleepers...

When I was in high school, I drove a 1967 VW Bug that was sporting a dual-carbed 2110cc motor that put out roughly 230hp. With everything lightened up, it would run low 13's, which was more than enough to surprise the hell out of nearly every person that pulled up next to me at a stoplight and revved... :smile: I STILL miss that car...

And my favorites now:

- Slapping a Chevy 350 in a Volvo 740 stationwagon... David Letterman drove one for awhile. Normally they get into the low 12's. The other fun one is an old Jag XJ6 with a small-block Chevy.

- My cousin's 1968 Dodge Coronet, painted the original putrid, baby sh*t green. From the outside, you can't tell he's running a 528 cube Hemi that's putting down over 600 hp to a custom Dana 60 axle underneath. Let's just say it's rather quick in a straight line.

 

Debates like this don't make much sense. It is all very dependent on the type of measurement you are doing.

The SRT-4 will win a drag race.
Which car is faster in a slalom?
Which car is faster around an autocross course?
Which car is faster around a road course?

I'm not sure the answer to any of those, but my guess is the MINIS wins the slalom and the autocross, and comes close on the road course. Probably would depend on how tight and twisty the road course is.

People who buy European cars and then worry about drag racing should do more research before buying them. They obviously are buying a name only.

Which car is safer? The MINI wins hands down. Which car will have better resale? The MINI.

The thing that bugged me about the SRT-4 was that it comes with 6" wide wheels. Sure, you can put some aftermarket wheels on it, but I autocross. In stock class, you have to use the stock wheel size. Who wants a 17" x 6" wheel? The car will already have trouble with no LSD putting all that power down, but now it is on narrow rubber too?

If you want a drag car, buy an SRT-4. If you want an all around car, don't.

Plus, the SRT-4 isn't very good to look at.

 

>>Which car is faster in a slalom?
According to Car & Driver and other magazines, the MCS beats EVERY other 2002 production car inthe 600 ft slalom, the $186,000 Porsche GT2 took 2nd place.

>>Which car is faster around an autocross course?
This quote from Grassroots Motorsports magazine answers that:
"We did some baseline testing, running several laps at Central Florida's Ocala Gran Prix, a 6/10-mile kart track featuring speeds and turns much like those found at an autocross. In bone-stock, as-delivered condition, we turned consistent 40-second laps in the Cooper S--about a full second quicker than some modified Porsches."

>>Which car is faster around a road course?
Thart would depend on the # of straight-aways inthe course, more, and longer straigt-aways would give the srt-4 a chance to catch up.

 

>>>>Which car is faster in a slalom?
>>According to Car & Driver and other magazines, the MCS beats EVERY other 2002 production car inthe 600 ft slalom, the $186,000 Porsche GT2 took 2nd place.

Didn't the SRT version and the Evo8 come out as a 2003 model year? I think I saw some slalom stats somewhere for those that are very competative with the MCS's stats.

 

I seriously doubt that an SRT4 would be doing any catching up on any roadcourse. From the reviews I've read, it handles corners every bit as well as the MCS.

I have no doubt that the SRT4 would easily outrun a stock MCS, or even a modified MCS with the current crop of mods (pulley, eco, suspension, exhaust).

The SRT4 is a lot of performance for the dollar. I wouldn't pick it over the MCS because of the many other reasons that people have mentioned. There is always some faster and cheaper no matter what car you own. Very few people will pick an SRT4 over an MCS just because of the performance (I suspect the MCS waiting list will be a bigger hurdle to overcome I also doubt there are many buyers comparing the two seriously. They generally appeal to different tastes; neither better than the other, just different.

BTW - The local racing school (Proformance), uses Neons for their school cars. I hear they are quite fun.

 

In discussing cars like the SRT4 and the MINI you have to keep in mind the heritage of the respective models as well as the histories of the companies and their markets.

European cars have always lived by their level of total refinement. Each model has a certain level of overall performance for the most part. The types of cars were always defined by the market.

American cars have always sold 'power' to the masses. Look at the horsepower race that begun in the late 50s and reached a peak at the early 70s before emissions and insurance issues took over. In many cases, a successful car was created by dumping a bigass motor in a cheap platform. The SRT4 owes it's heritage to the Dodge Charger, which was born when Chrysler stuffed a big block V8 into a stripped-down Coronet, and sold it at an attractive price. You basically had a two door high powered taxicab, and it was a flat out blast to drive. Never mind that the braking and handling did not keep pace with the acceleration for the most part, this was what people in the states craved; the feeling of horsepower. With so many miles of straight, flat roads, your typical Detroit musclecar had it's home.

Europeans demanded a more all-round performace from their cars. With increases in power came equivalent upgrades in braking and handling. The market valued high build qualities too. Their cars were shaped by the roads they had to drive on, lots of hilly and curvy small roads. We all know where our MINI's heritage lies.

Comparing Neons and MINIs in many cases is an apples-to-oranges comparison. Other times it's more direct. Are they performance cars? Without a doubt. Is the performance well-rounded when viewed from their intended demographic? Hell yeah. Do these cars respond well to mods? Youbetcha. Are they reliable? For the most part, yes.

So what if some dude in and SRT4 spanks yer azz on the street? By the same token, who cares if you left that SRT4 wagging it's basket handle spoiler in the twisties? Each of you had your fun when doing so. Each CAR was doing something it was designed to do. There is no doubt it's even more fun when the roles are reversed.

I considered an SRT4 when I was looking for some new wheels. I bought an MCS instead. And I am a die-hard Dodge man. I will always be.

Then there is this story about a 400+ HP 69 Dart that used to overtake BMWs and Corvettes in the twisties, but that's another topic entirely.....

 

The reason i used the word hate in my title was basically to get responses. Mainly i was just curious why the MCS wasn't a little quicker with mods. I got some answers and I appreciate all your responses. I ran my first auto-x and i stayed in second the entire time, so i can't really say i am disappointed with the gearing because it just may be set up this very reason. Thanks all.

And not to be a pessimist but i kind of doubt a 6.2 time with just pulley and Magnaflow. (not trying to start an argument) :smile:

 

I am sorry to drag this thread out, but I hate being mis quoted. Chitown_COOP Said:
>>> . . . Now please let this stupid debate come to an end

Wow. That was a very very nice response to all of this hubris. We all love our MINIs. There are some cars that are faster, or better at doing some things than our MINIs. That's something we're all going to have to live with. If you're truly unhappy with your 1/4 runs, then trade in your MINI for something faster. Otherwise, let's motor!

And my post read:
>> As for the motor, it is built in Brasil by a Company called Pentech. Pentech is a project that BMW and Chrysler had started before the takeover by Daimler. The motor is not found in any Daimler products stateside yet. It is used in Neons in all other markets though. The motor is not just a chrysler motor and it isn't just a BMW motor, it was developed from scratch by designers from both companies. Now please let this stupid debate come to an end

Please let's try to keep from misquoting people and chnging what they are asying by only using partial quote completely out of context. Thank you.

 

>>So how much torque/hp would it take for the MINI to reach 0-60 in 5.5 seconds?

Anyone willing to put in for an answer to this Q? Curiosiry is killin' me

 

A guesstimate: 250HP, shorter final drive and some drag slicks should do it

 

Couple probs with the MINIs: Weight. It is a light car, but an MCS weighs as much as a Celica.

Prob with the SRT-4: Still handles like a Neon.

 

>>Please let's try to keep from misquoting people and chnging what they are asying by only using partial quote completely out of context. Thank you.

Funny...I never saw this response. I wasn't trying to take things out of context...just to shorten the quotes!

Also, I was agreeing with your post from before!!

ALSO, I couldn't resist making a partial quote a second time!!!

 

Some of you guy's are harsh... I'll admit it, I think Dodge did a nice job with the SRT-4. I own an MCS and I'm very happy with it but I do envy the 0-60 time of several similarly priced cars like the SRT-4 and WRX. Unfortunatly most of the MINI's best attributes are only exploited on the track and the only real comparison on the street for performance is the stoplight drag. I think that's why so many people are upgrading their MCS's. I plan on obtaining the 0-60 in 5.5 if I can with my MINI that way I can hang with most cars on and off the track.

My brother-in-law is in the market for a "fun" car and we have both been seriously looking into the SRT-4. It's a tremendous deal for performance compared to almost anything else on the market. It makes the Focus SVT look like a real ripoff. There are alot of people who also need the convienience of a 4 door, 5 passanger car and those people would never even consider buying a MINI. And hey, you gotta give an SRT-4 owner credit for at least buying American....

 

>>I didn't buy my MINI to drag race, I bought it 'cuz it handles amazing and has excellent build quality.
_______________________
Well said, Ryephile. Anything else, folks?

 

>>My brother-in-law is in the market for a "fun" car and we have both been seriously looking into the SRT-4. It's a tremendous deal for performance compared to almost anything else...

?! A deal? The SRT-4 is a joke on the owner. It'll be worth half its original price in 2 years, max. Either the WRX or an AUDI (both very workable performance-mod wise) in the same price structure would prove a much better deal economicly speaking.

The SRT-4 could do 0-60 in 3 seconds flat, it still wouldn't be worth its' price for many as a daily driver. After 4-12 months of doing 5.5 0-60 times it'll heave itself on the pavement & beg for a mercy-killing (if it doesn't go down via "suicide-by-cop&quot. :smile: It offsets our foreign car purchase for one. Two, I can never bring myself to buy american vehicles, although it would greatly help our GNP, it's simply much to financially burdensome to each consumer to do so.

-s.b.

_________________
MINI: Best horse for the buck!

 

>>Debates like this don't make much sense. It is all very dependent on the type of measurement you are doing.
>>
>>The SRT-4 will win a drag race.
>>Which car is faster in a slalom?
>>Which car is faster around an autocross course?
>>Which car is faster around a road course?
Why worry about the neon when the wrx sti will smoke the mini in every catagory, except cuteness.

 

the WRX STI is much more expensive for one.
Also have you seen this car? It's stripped on the inside, runs slicks practically, and is just butt ugly. This isn't really even designed for everyday use, its strictly a race car and a good one at that.

The point of this thread (i started it) was to try to find some reasons as to why with even 200 hp the MCS doesn't get the numbers i would expect and I got several good answers so thank you to those who provided them.

 

Oh BTW, if you read my opening comments i said that a co-worker was getting the SRT-4. They wanted more than MSRP so he said screw it and didn't buy it.

 

Alot also depends on the driver. I autocross my Mini over here in Spokane and have seen a ST4 in action. In my opinion, it handled reasonably well although the driver was a novice. If I remember right, he posted a 1:04 lap, which is respectable. The driver was also obviously a novice and was a bit light through the curves.

I think we should face it, as others have said its a good car for the price. What we get is this... I parked my car after the race and MANY people came to look at it. I remember only a couple checking out his. The WRX's too!

 

>>The MCS needs the first few gears lowered a bit. second gear all the way to 60mph? I sometimes accelerate onto the road in a hurry then cruise... 1, 2, 6.
>>
>>It'd be a rocket then, even with 163 hp.

This was an absurd decision. Does anyone care that they can go 140 in their MCS? BMW governs many of their cars before they hit 130.

Why not offer optional gearing packages... Another question, how difficult is it for tuners to come up with a new gearing package?

 

>>And my favorites now:
>>
>>- Slapping a Chevy 350 in a Volvo 740 stationwagon... David Letterman drove one for awhile. Normally they get into the low 12's. The other fun one is an old Jag XJ6 with a small-block Chevy.
>>
>>- My cousin's 1968 Dodge Coronet, painted the original putrid, baby sh*t green. From the outside, you can't tell he's running a 528 cube Hemi that's putting down over 600 hp to a custom Dana 60 axle underneath. Let's just say it's rather quick in a straight line.

There are some people who have slipped Mustang 5 liters into Miatas. That can't be good.

 

http://cnn.heavyplasma.com/www/cnn/2...8987index.html

There. Feel better?

 

1 word for this link http://cnn.heavyplasma.com/www/cnn/2...8987index.html


Priceless

 

I think the people who buy the Dodge SRT-4 are very different from the people who buy Mini Coopers. The Dodge is not an attractive car at all, and the interior is very cheap looking. The Mini is a very attractive, unique looking car inside and out. But the point is people who want a cheap drag race car for psuedo fast and furious meets where they do 1/4 mile runs get the dodge. People who want a more tasteful car get the Mini. And I will bet you my Mini will beat some SRT-4's when I am done with it.

 

This link is too perfect....Is this a joke?? I live in San Diego and sightings of the new Neon have been rare....All I can say is WOW!

Kevin