>>Hey Sleepless i wouldn't buy a SRT-4 in a billion years. I was just sharing some thoughts as to why exactly with even 200 hp (or 220 for that matter) the MINI still isnt all that quick. :smile:

Good to hear... I wasn't aiming the msg at you personally... Just voicing my view on what a great car the MINI is and that we should all appreciate what we have :smile:

The Neon benefits from the fact that the same motor is used in other cars, like the PT Cruiser Turbo (which is also faster than the MCS!). Economies of scale play a big part in the Neon's performance advantage and price.

I don't know if this will turn out to be true for the Neon, but it is intersting to note how reliable some cars are at the race track while others are not. For example, M3 owners are always bitched that an SVT Mustang is a better bang for the buck. Well, my M3 has seen a lot of track miles with zero problems but the SVT Mustang will toast its main bearings if pushed hard at the track. Likewise, I suspect the MINI will be quite reliable under the stress of track "ab"use while Neon's will not. I value this a lot!

I traded a Turbo PT Cruiser for my MCS and I can tell you that for about the same price, the MCS is leagues ahead of the Cruiser in terms of quality.

Also, as others have pointed out, the MCS is not geared for drag racing. Many manufactures setup the gearing so that 2nd gear is good for just a bit over 60MPH so that you only have to shift once for a 0 to 60 run and so that you just hit redline above it. This maximizes the 0-60 test for most cars. The MCS is clearly not geared in this way.

 

Anyone else find this whole thread horribly ironic.

-----> we all have a chrysler engine, do we not?


haha, self loathing bastards!....lol

 

>>If we take them in the twisties but they eat us alive in the straights, what good is being 5 MPH faster thru a corner if they're 50 MPH faster on the straightaway?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>*playing devil's advocate*

Most of the "drivers" that purchase a neon won't make it through the twisties. The overpowered eyesore has too much power not enough handling. As you accelerate smoothly out of that last tight turn you will see an eyesore spin off the road.

 

>>Anyone else find this whole thread horribly ironic.
>>
>>-----> we all have a chrysler engine, do we not?
>>
>>
>>haha, self loathing bastards!....lol

Ah.........NO. The last I read the mini engine was Designed by BMW built by Peaugot (sp). Chrysler doesn't equal Daimler

 

hmmm, the story I always got was it was built by chrysler-(daimler) in mexico.

Got a link or something that talks about the design and build process the engine went through or anything on that order? Because now you have peaked my interest.

 

>>>>Hey Sleepless i wouldn't buy a SRT-4 in a billion years. I was just sharing some thoughts as to why exactly with even 200 hp (or 220 for that matter) the MINI still isnt all that quick. :smile:
>>
>>Good to hear... I wasn't aiming the msg at you personally... Just voicing my view on what a great car the MINI is and that we should all appreciate what we have :smile:
>>
>>The Neon benefits from the fact that the same motor is used in other cars, like the PT Cruiser Turbo (which is also faster than the MCS!). Economies of scale play a big part in the Neon's performance advantage and price.
>>
>>I don't know if this will turn out to be true for the Neon, but it is intersting to note how reliable some cars are at the race track while others are not. For example, M3 owners are always bitched that an SVT Mustang is a better bang for the buck. Well, my M3 has seen a lot of track miles with zero problems but the SVT Mustang will toast its main bearings if pushed hard at the track. Likewise, I suspect the MINI will be quite reliable under the stress of track "ab"use while Neon's will not. I value this a lot!
>>
>>I traded a Turbo PT Cruiser for my MCS and I can tell you that for about the same price, the MCS is leagues ahead of the Cruiser in terms of quality.
>>
>>Also, as others have pointed out, the MCS is not geared for drag racing. Many manufactures setup the gearing so that 2nd gear is good for just a bit over 60MPH so that you only have to shift once for a 0 to 60 run and so that you just hit redline above it. This maximizes the 0-60 test for most cars. The MCS is clearly not geared in this way.

Hi, what I do not understand is that if other cars are geared on 2 up to 60 for the 0-60 run test, why the cooper s going up to 70 in 2 gear canot do a better time than the srt4. can somebody explain ???

I have a cooper s with Randy's alta pulley and magnaflow exhaust and I tested 0-60 in 6.2
My car does 1gear 50 2gear 72 3gear 90 4gear 110

 

I always thought that it was made in a D-C factory in Brazil. Anyone? Anyone?

 

>>I always thought that it was made in a D-C factory in Brazil. Anyone? Anyone?

That is correct. The new motor will be from Peugeot; not sure what year model it will start with.

 

>>Hi, what I do not understand is that if other cars are geared on 2 up to 60 for the 0-60 run test, why the cooper s going up to 70 in 2 gear canot do a better time than the srt4. can somebody explain ???
>>
>>I have a cooper s with Randy's alta pulley and magnaflow exhaust and I tested 0-60 in 6.2
>>My car does 1gear 50 2gear 72 3gear 90 4gear 110

I'm not exactly sure what your question is, but below are the overall gear ratios for 1st and 2nd gear for the MCS and the SRT4; clearly, the SRT4's first gear is better for drag racing, even its 2nd gear has a bit more leverage than the MCS's 2nd gear. It is no suprise that the SRT4 is faster even when the a MCS has close to 215HP.

You'd need to change the final drive ratio in the MCS to get close to the SRT4.

MCS SRT4
11.425:1 12.859 (1st gear)
7.181:1 7.211 (2nd)

 

First of all, I think that the Mini is a great car with incredible designs and engineering. They are not designed for drag racing as everyone has been stating. They are for road circut racing and spirited driving. With that being said, the SRT-4 is a performance car designed to be an excellent base to start from or to be run stock. Daimler is very smart in that they are building cars that are influenced by the market(SEMA). As for the performance of the SRT-4, Dodge is understating the engine's performance quite heavily. If anyone here has read the Road& Track review of the car you would be aware that the SRT-4 dyno-ed at 238hp at the crank and 222hp at the wheels. The car has no muffler and a radical computer that gives very little turbo lag as commented by all of the test drivers. If you ask anyone that was around in the eighties you would know that Chrysler was the biggest producer of turbo engines that had an impressive life for a moderately high boost. The real knock on Chrysler has been thier interiors and transmissions. Now they are using Benz trannys and are updating thier interiors. So in review, the SRT-4 is specifically designed to be very fast pocket rocket that handles pretty well, while the Mini was designed to handle incredibly well, accelerate decently, and be admired by all.
As for the motor, it is built in Brasil by a Company called Pentech. Pentech is a project that BMW and Chrysler had started before the takeover by Daimler. The motor is not found in any Daimler products stateside yet. It is used in Neons in all other markets though. The motor is not just a chrysler motor and it isn't just a BMW motor, it was developed from scratch by designers from both companies. Now please let this stupid debate come to an end

 

>>I have a few questions for you guys and gals out there. Now i believe the srt-4 starts at 215 hp and its 0-60 time is about 5.7 depending on what magazine you read. Now if you get the MCS to 200 hp (with Works) the est time is 6.5.
(which is inaccurate because BMW said the MCS stock was 6.9 and the lowest time from any mag was 7.1 I think.) So Really its probably at 6.7 with 200 hp.
Shouldn't it be quicker than that? This time is with heavy wheel/runflats right?

I have always hated ugly cars, fast or not, and long before I got the MINI.
Other than being able to out handle the srt-4 you must also understand that the MCS is a European car with the majority of the sales IN Europe. European cars are most often designed for higher speeds, tuned to maintain speeds of 100mph for hours and for "over-taking" traffic like accelerating 50-100. The MINI is not tuned for 0-60 like ricers and wanna-be ricer hotrods like the srt-4.

_________________
[img]albums/album25/akk.jpg[/img] VinceAndJessica.com

Einstein said E=MC2, I say S=MC2

 

>>European cars are most often designed for higher speeds, tuned to maintain speeds of 100mph for hours and for "over-taking" traffic like accelerating 50-100. The MINI is not tuned for 0-60 like ricers and wanna-be ricer hotrods like the srt-4.


orbhot, that's one excellent response. Mind if I plagarize this from you in the future if someone else asks?

 

The gearing on a car can be set up for different needs. The engineers of the MINI did not set up this car to win drag races. The car was probably geared so you could drive through a series of closely connected turns without having to shift excessively. I do not have my MINI yet :smile:

What do you that have some sporting miles on yur MINIs think?

 

>>>>European cars are most often designed for higher speeds, tuned to maintain speeds of 100mph for hours and for "over-taking" traffic like accelerating 50-100. The MINI is not tuned for 0-60 like ricers and wanna-be ricer hotrods like the srt-4.
>>
>>
>>orbhot, that's one excellent response. Mind if I plagarize this from you in the future if someone else asks?

This is the public domain and nothing is copywritten... feel free, ESPECIALLY if someone driving an ugly srt-4 asks you.

 

While I was gong to ignore this thread, I got bored and thought what the Hell! Just my $.02. The title of this thread bothers me a little. Why would anyone bother to hate a car? Luckily we have mny choices for the type of car we may want to purchase. Just because there are vehicles out there that perform in one aspect or another a little better than another. Who cares? I like the idea of having many decent performing vehicles out there to choose from. I came of age (driving), in the early 70's. Anyone else in there forties may remember that in the 70's the cars available sucked after 1972. No horsepower, no handling, and shoddy build quality. That is what opened the door for the Japanese makers as far as sales are concerned. Having gone through that period and remembering when beating a Vega with my Pinto was a thrill, I am thankfull that Dodge, Subaru, Mitsubishi, Mini and all of the other manufacturers are putting together such great performing vehicles.
You want a SRT-4, a Mini, a Evolution, a 390 horse Mustang, a whatever...Buy it and consider yourself lucky for having the choice! :smile:

 

>>Hi, what I do not understand is that if other cars are geared on 2 up to 60 for the 0-60 run test, why the cooper s going up to 70 in 2 gear canot do a better time than the srt4. can somebody explain ???
>>
>>I have a cooper s with Randy's alta pulley and magnaflow exhaust and I tested 0-60 in 6.2
>>My car does 1gear 50 2gear 72 3gear 90 4gear 110

You have the pully and exhaust, and your at 6.2? Your close to the Neon with that.
Now what if you ad an intake and an Computer upgrade, you could add another 15+ HP. You should be able to compete then with the Neon. Repalce those wheels and go for it!

 

One more comment.
What do you do if you are a car company and loosing sales to better looking and faster cars?
You take yours and shove more power in it, give it an GTS, TSI, SR4 extention on the name, slap some plastim molding on the sides, and direct it's sales at the younger tuner generation.
Does that make it a cool car? I don't think so.

Chrysler has done this before.
Remember the Dodge Shadow? Dodge's Neon of the late 80's they tried to shove more power into and sell to a younger demographic as a sports car to compete against the Hondas and Toyotas.
What about the Lebaron GTC?
Conquest TSI?
Avenger ES?
Stratus R/T?
Sundance RS TURBO?
What about the Dodge Daytona? When you were in high shcool, did you ever think to yourself, "Man, I can't wait until I get my license. I am going to get a Dodge (insert any model here). No! We wanted a Camaro, a Mustang, a Prelude, or an old muscle car. Something that was cool, and fast.

Chrysler is notirious for taking old, ugly, aging models and making them into a GTS, or TSI, or whatever and promoting them as a "pocket rocket".

Did MINI need to do this? NO!
Will MINI ever need to do this, NO!

And just how long do you think the Neon will be around? What about the MINI?
And I didn't even get into the resale value of the Dodge vs. the Mini.

Just my opinion.

 

Wow. I am famous. :smile:

For anyone in Chicago that needs to be given a warning, consider this your only chance:

http://www.baylinerownersclub.org/ga...65/newvan4.jpg

Its been swapped to a 5 speed (which was a regular production option) and a number of other changes, including a no-cat 3" exhaust, 14.5 psi (soon to have a larger turbo and over 20 psi)HD axles and a carbon Kevlar clutch good for 500 hp (which when I am done with it is what it will need.)

Why did I do it? Simple. I got the van for $900. The trans swap was a grand. I am now in the 14s with much trimming to go (see http://www.turbovan.net, which is my buddy Paul Smith, for info on how to make a 12 second Caravan). Simply put, I love to make people look like idiots in supposedly faster and more expensive cars look like total fools. :smile:

In closing, love all cars. You are fortunate to have a MINI, but a true car enthusiast finds the beauty in any vehicle, even a Kia Rio.

also, as my van should show you, you just NEVER know what kind of potential is hiding in a certain vehicle. My engine resides in everything from a wire wheel LeBaron, the van, and the sporting cars....all capable of the same power and mods. Yugos are based on Fiats, with a very large aftermarket. For a grand, you could turn a $50 Yugo into a track terror.

In other words, he who judges a book by its cover will soon be staring at taillights.

_________________
Matt Train
1989 Dodge Caravan ES Turbo 5-speed

 

>> . . . Now please let this stupid debate come to an end

Wow. That was a very very nice response to all of this hubris. We all love our MINIs. There are some cars that are faster, or better at doing some things than our MINIs. That's something we're all going to have to live with. If you're truly unhappy with your 1/4 runs, then trade in your MINI for something faster. Otherwise, let's motor!

 

>>You have the pully and exhaust, and your at 6.2? Your close to the Neon with that.
>>Now what if you ad an intake and an Computer upgrade, you could add another 15+ HP. You should be able to compete then with the Neon. Repalce those wheels and go for it!


Um, ok and the neon does all similar mods and is pushing high 4 second 0-60?

Who cares if the neon is faster to 60? as long as the cooper's acceleration is quick than I am happy, I bought it for the same reason many of you did. the handling, the looks (of course now it might be turning into a beetle, anyone else have 14 year old girls drooling on their car??), the overall feel, etc etc.

 

For those of you really looking to smoke street racers and still look good (in a MINI of course!), quaife came out with a close gear system for the cooper s. shoot, add a stage 3 clutch, diff, and short shifter, and your MINI euro car turns into a ricer eater.

http://www.quaife.co.uk/catalogue/download/41-42.pdf

at the bottom of the page.

Before anyone says "MINIs are not supposed to smoke ricers on the street on the straitaways", I want one to do it, so plopping about $5000 into the tranny, another $5000 into the motor, you have a euro ricer :smile:

 

Someone here will know the specifics, but how long has the Neon been around? 10 years? Longer? It's only after it's been out for that long that they're finally taking the gloves off to get the last boost for this aging model line. That said, I for one think what they've done is great and if I decide I want a dedicated track car I might just be able to rationalize an SRT-4 at $20k before I can get the spouse to approve something more expensive. Hopefully it will inspire MINI or tuners in general ot come up with newer and better mods for our cars too (for thos who think they need to keep up with the Neons of the world)

As for people who should be annoyed, it's not us...it's Viper owners. Imagine spending $80,000 for mutant V-10 monster only to find that the same company that makes your car is now putting out a $20,000 rocket that with only a few mods is nipping ad your heels. Now that's embarassing.

 

Don't feel bad....when all is said and done, it's still just a Neon.

 

yeah, i bought a neon once, and it was the last time i made that mistake...

my neon is five years old, it's had the break line fixed three times, the head gasket replaced (after 40,000 miles), and it had to have front end work done on it twice... so the total cost to repair it's faults has pretty much equaled the cost of what i paid for the car when i bought it used....

 

The old chassis Neon looked and handled much better (refined) than this new chassis. The ergonomics drive me nuts too with the new Neon, yuk! I've owned both Neon chassis, so my experience is long term and first hand.

We really are comparing two different lifestyles of cars here, a sort of "apples to oranges" if you will.

Motor-On,
Ryan