Drivetrain (Cooper S) MINI Cooper S (R53) intakes, exhausts, pulleys, headers, throttle bodies, and any other modifications to the Cooper S drivetrain.

Drivetrain BMW Show Post Mortem Results In (Pics as well)

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Old Sep 27, 2007 | 01:55 PM
  #1  
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BMW Show Post Mortem Results In (Pics as well)

Here at 1320autos we like to share the good with you, but we feel when there’s some bad it’s only right we share those facts with you as well.

So the first two runs on Sunday were without nitrous, due to the fuse on our nitrous relay blowing and not activating the nitrous and fuel solenoid.

Once that was fixed it was a case of going on a run and hoping the new experimental driveshaft would hold up.

I launched with too few revs as I was worried about the shaft snapping, hence the poor 60ft of 2.3, but once the nitrous kicked in it pulled like a train. Even going into the strong headwind the 60ft-1000ft showed we had nearly gained a 1/10th over our previous best.

At 11.4 secs into the run the engine nosed over. As soon as I felt it I lifted my foot off the throttle and switched off the engine by this point there was water coming up the windscreen as the bottom hose had blown off.

What’s scary is that with all the above it still ran a 12.36@107 (fastest BMW of the day, I wonder how many BMW mags print that)

So was I gutted?? Yes and No; drag Racing especially heads up nitrous racing is accompanied by a real strange mentality, that is: you have to blow it up to learn how to improve it and move forward with the main aim of going faster.

Do I know why it happened? Yes and no. We just have to rebuild it and subject it to the same abuse with a few alterations, otherwise how can we advise a customer on a combo of parts if they wish to go this route.

Good news: all 4 pistons don’t look as if they’ve done a day’s work.

Unfortunately a lot of people will blame the nitrous, when in fact the air fuel.were in the 11/10-1 range for most of the run.

Enjoy the pics
 
Attached Thumbnails BMW Show Post Mortem Results In (Pics as well)-img_3206.jpg   BMW Show Post Mortem Results In (Pics as well)-img_3211.jpg   BMW Show Post Mortem Results In (Pics as well)-img_3227.jpg  
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Old Sep 27, 2007 | 06:59 PM
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Some silicone RTV will patch that right up...
 
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Old Sep 27, 2007 | 07:10 PM
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Wow, first time i have ever seen anything like that before. Very impressive! (in the sense that you managed to cause a failur that spectacular).
 
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Old Sep 27, 2007 | 07:15 PM
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I am all about the air/fuel theory but that does look like a nitrous meltdown.... At least thats what my Mustang looked like when I juiced it. But I held it down for waaay too long and didnt have a throttle position sensor on it. Oh well.....must of been air/fuel! It makes for purdy pics
 
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Old Sep 27, 2007 | 07:23 PM
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that will buff right out
 
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Old Sep 27, 2007 | 07:24 PM
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Now that looks expensive.On the plus side you never know how far you can go until you go too far . Thanks for sharing.
 
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Old Sep 27, 2007 | 07:39 PM
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Any ideas what you think may have caused cylinders two through four to, erm, meltdown?

Keep up the otherwise good work!
 
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Old Sep 27, 2007 | 07:43 PM
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Ouch. That left a mark!
 
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Old Sep 27, 2007 | 09:00 PM
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looks like you now have a reason to get a new RMW head .

I really respect the fact that you shared your experience. You are pushing the limits and sharing along the way . Keep up the good work Paul.

Longboard
 
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Old Sep 27, 2007 | 09:15 PM
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Lest we forget, A/F ratios can be misread when the mixture is extreme in either direction. O2 sensors are not the end-all be-all.

I'm surprised it ate the head and the gasket and did nothing to the pistons or the rings, though I don't know what kind of material these things are made of.

Looks to me like you had overly high combustion chamber temps probably brought on by too hot a plug, too hot an intake charge, too low an octane of fuel, or some such combination of the above factors.

Also, looks looks like one cylinder did not suffer the same problem. On my 300zx turbo I ran a 60 shot wet with 11psi. Anything more and the fuel pooled up in the back cylinders. The fronts leaned out while the rears ran rich.

The only way we new this was by pulling the plugs and inspecting them after each run.

Don't mind me, I'm tired and felt like babbling.
 
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Old Sep 27, 2007 | 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul Webster
Unfortunately a lot of people will blame the nitrous, when in fact the air fuel.were in the 11/10-1 range for most of the run.
Uh...your head MELTED. That's not gonna happen without the fiery chewing power of nitrous oxide. Your aggregate A/F ratios may have been okay, but conditions in those cylinders were super lean and very, very hot, which is the result of ALL the fuel being burned, and then excess nitrous oxide oxidizing whatever else it comes into contact with -- in this case, the aluminum head itself. I've never seen molten aluminum like that without nitrous oxide.

--Dan
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Old Sep 28, 2007 | 06:16 AM
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We've said to ourselves that its the headgsaket that has failed us as someone predicted.

This was meant to be the last meeting for the car this year, but I now want to repair it and get out again just to prove it can go regular 11.5s @ 120+ without a problem.

Dont you just love R&D, just wish someone else was picking up the tab
 
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Old Sep 28, 2007 | 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul Webster
We've said to ourselves that its the headgsaket that has failed us as someone predicted.

This was meant to be the last meeting for the car this year, but I now want to repair it and get out again just to prove it can go regular 11.5s @ 120+ without a problem.

Dont you just love R&D, just wish someone else was picking up the tab

I hear you bro...... did you get my PM?
 
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Old Sep 28, 2007 | 10:23 AM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by Longboard Mini
looks like you now have a reason to get a new RMW head .

I really respect the fact that you shared your experience. You are pushing the limits and sharing along the way . Keep up the good work Paul.

Longboard

Cheers Longboard, I can assure you I didnt want this to happen as I was planning on starting the turbo conversion next week for the start of the 08 season.

But I feel now that I need to prove and show if you want to run mid 11s and 120+ all weekend is dooable
 
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Old Sep 28, 2007 | 10:26 AM
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I take it you didn't crack your block? Last time I had a head gasket fail was on my turbo'd integra, and the antifreeze blew into the cylinder and cracked the block...that was a site & sound I'll never forget .
 
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Old Sep 28, 2007 | 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by succubus
Looks to me like you had overly high combustion chamber temps probably brought on by too hot a plug, too hot an intake charge, too low an octane of fuel, or some such combination of the above factors.
Just a few questions for clarification...doesn't nitrous cool the intake charge? I would assume that he was running some sort of racing fuel, what type of octane level do these have?
 
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Old Sep 29, 2007 | 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by skillet
I take it you didn't crack your block? Last time I had a head gasket fail was on my turbo'd integra, and the antifreeze blew into the cylinder and cracked the block...that was a site & sound I'll never forget .
It didn't crack the block just nibbled at it a little
 
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Old Sep 29, 2007 | 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by jaynicholson
Just a few questions for clarification...doesn't nitrous cool the intake charge? I would assume that he was running some sort of racing fuel, what type of octane level do these have?
Nitrous does coolthe air temps quite a bit

We were running pump gas which is rated at 99 over here but is equilvent to your 93
 
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Old Sep 29, 2007 | 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Revolution Mini Works
I hear you bro...... did you get my PM?
Was that the one with you saying that you were sending me a jesus head over FOC so one would go up the track and record a number
 
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Old Sep 29, 2007 | 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul Webster
Was that the one with you saying that you were sending me a jesus head over FOC so one would go up the track and record a number

Not quite the PM I sent you.... it's cheaper for me to set the record

what about the engine..... ????? read the PM silly
 
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Old Sep 29, 2007 | 06:13 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Paul Webster
Nitrous does coolthe air temps quite a bit

We were running pump gas which is rated at 99 over here but is equilvent to your 93
Yes, it cools the charge. In fact, my '84 300zx turbo was non intercooled and I was running 13.4 on an otherwise stock engine (besides exaust and air filter), with only Nitto drag radials and a slipping clutch. I was able to safely run a 40 shot wet, with 11 psi with no detonation with the nitrous flowing, but 11psi would ping with no nitroush. Kinda funny.
 
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Old Sep 30, 2007 | 11:51 PM
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how much were you spraying Paul?? do you guys leave the timing as is or alter it??

be nice if you could run EGT probes in each of the primeries. i hear thats what the V8 N2O gusy do to fine tune the indavidual cylinders whilest keeping the AFR the same.

thanks Chris.
 
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Old Oct 1, 2007 | 12:31 AM
  #23  
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160 but out of a single fogger, but as you'll notice from the colour of the valves the one that didn't go is the one that was leaner .

Yup egt in each pipe would be ideal, my old racing nitrous buddy has anegt and a lamba sensor in each pipe now, To much Info
 
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Old Oct 1, 2007 | 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul Webster
160 but out of a single fogger, but as you'll notice from the colour of the valves the one that didn't go is the one that was leaner .

Yup egt in each pipe would be ideal, my old racing nitrous buddy has anegt and a lamba sensor in each pipe now, To much Info
160shot!! bloody hell mate! lol how much power do you think you were making??

Chris.
 
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