I recently installed a Mini Madness water to air intercooler and it performs great. Easily the best power mod I've done so far.

The install is fairly simple, it just takes a lot of time to do it right. I noticed I did have to stray from the Madness instructions a bit, especially for the position of the pump. But all in all pretty easy even for a less experienced mechanic.

I wanted to run before and after dynos, but where I live in Salt Lake City I can't find a whole lot of dyno options. The one dyno source I know of has been very hard to reach.

I really didn't think it wasn't going to make the car pull as hard as it does now. I'm very suprised.

 

in the intercooler on the same car with the pully? if so it could probably be because of the pully that you are feeling the great results :]

 

I am sure George will fix the heat exchanger problem. He has gone the extra mile for lots of folks around here, myself included.

I agree that the air to water setup really really helps maintain the power our cars are able to put down cosistently, but I am suspicious of it "adding" any real power as it doesn't affect the charge other than lowering the temp more consistently towards ambient.

 

How does it add power? It might recover some bringing the charge air temps down.

 

You're right. I'm just focusing on the part that seemed to make the power usable.
Whether the water-air wouldn't have been so great without the pulley I don't know. My point is the water-air made a big change and my MINI didn't feel this way before it. I don't want to discuss the whole IC's don't actually make power. The the power wasn't being felt before the IC, it is responsible for freeing it up or whatever.

Here's my intercooler history so far:
I was running stock, then Alta larger TMIC, then stock again, now Madness water-air.
I didn't feel much of a difference with the big Alta at first, but after going back to the stock IC I felt a huge change with how the car pulled up through the RPM's.
If you're doubting your aftermarket IC try going back to stock, that's the way I really noticed the power gain. The Alta seemed to smooth out the power delivery.

But the water-air is a whole different story... it feels like a different car when I push it. It pulls harder through the mid-range, the power comes in earlier.

 

You're last statement makes sense. If you're at a stop the wtr to air IC it is cooling itself down while any air to air is warming up ,so when you take off hard with your wtr to air you have more mid range power because your IC is cold and you don't have wait to get moving as you would to get the air through an air to air. Also I think the internal boost air passages are opened up and flow better with a wtr to air IC.

 

Nice Sig

Longboard

 

Funny enough, I was just out for a 25 minute run with my MINI and when I got back I just opened the hood, coz my car didn't "feel" well, and layed my hand on the DFIC for I think no more than 1 second and had to take it off... it was really hot... hot to the state that I think I can actually cook a steak very well. I looked into Mini Madness for their W2A intercooler to keep me more cool on the hot summer days... mind you it is 41 C out side. I think I still have to do more research on this issue and work to fix my problem or get a better IC. Please keep us posted on the total feel you get from your car now against your prior setups.

Thanks...

 

I definitely will ca$per. We'll see what happens as it gets even hotter. The summers here usually max out at a dry 108 F (43c) or so, and stay in the 90's almost daily.

Today was 85 F through most of the day. I did some pretty hard canyon driving, as well as a lot of stop and go... no ill effects or feel of power loss from heatsoak.

 

All this "Force Fed" guy speaks is lies! LIES I SAY!

Just kidding dude, I can't wait to see your new set up in person! Bet its the cool

 

I don't know how that direct flow IC seals against the hood/scoop but check it because, the DFIC's are real thick and the air will go around it if it can rather than go through it. If the cooling air goes around rather than through an air to air intercooler it's worse than useless.Don't check the temps on the passenger side as it gonna be the hot side ,it should be cool on the horn coming out the IC on the drivers side(a few degrees warmer than ambient) .You have to do it real quick as the underhood temps will heat everything up real fast.My Top mount Alta IC was too hot to touch ,both sides,in a rain storm on the interstate because the seal was not containing the flow (this was started in another thread too) .

 

I got my GRS IC few days ago and still waiting to get my M7 CAI in mail along with Craven SS. I will install all the parts when I have them at the same time. Will post some info on the difference in the new and bigger IC.

 

The M7 DFIC ,when installed correctly ,seals all the incoming air into the face of the IC and none of it escapes AROUND the cooler. This creates two situations . The first and most important is that 100% of the incoming air is working to cool the intake . The second issue is that because of this good seal no air is escaping over the top and cooling the outside of the IC . The only reason the outside is hot is because there is no cooling air wasted to cool it down . Its real simple just post your before and after intake temps and see if they compare . To be fair drive around town a bit and let that water system achieve heat soak for a real revelation. Our numbers have been posted several times , it would be interesting to see yours.

Randy
M7 Tuning

 

It's true that the DFIC is mounted very well and I checked after the install and saw that the scoop directs all air to the inside of the DFIC. Honestly I have to see the temperatures before and after (no monitoring tool yet ) but I will find a way. We all know that heat kills the performance in a MINI, but how come the inside of the hood on top of the DFIC is cooler than top of the DFIC? (my DFIC has the ceramic under coating and black coat) I will have to compare it against the stock then see if there is major change.

Did anyone get these numbers in a hot environment?

 

It's 48 C now and I'm sure the DFIC is trying to keep up thank god for AC

 

I was thinking about this a little more, your DMIC has a big flat aluminum heat sink on top of it. It soaks up heat from the hot boost air. Not so much under hood heat as it goes away as you drive.Thats what you feel. Ouch. Compressed air gets hoter in hot weather. If you stick your fingers in the front opening you should be able to feel the cooling fins and they should be as cool as the air going into them.Do it fast.

 

I looked for installed pictures before I got this, but never found any. Here are some pictures per request.
Please nevermind the bad quality and dirty car. I'll get some better ones this weekend.












Not done smoothing out the bumper yet, but you get the idea.

 

Forcefed ,looks good I see why that would work very well ,the IC radiator is big and out in clean ,non heated air . What are you gonna do with your scoop now? Cold air intake?

 

Forcefed, thanks for the info. I just looked at the Madness site, and I think I understand what is BASICALLY involved. Please correct if I'm wrong:
1) Madness bigger badder radiator replaces the stock radiator?
2) Madness WAIC replaces the stock IC?
3) install the "plumbing"?
Is that essentially correct?
Approximately how many hours did it take?
Thanks in advance.

 

The stock radiator remains untouched. The part you see the front is the new heat exchanger for the air/water aftercooler, it sits in front of the A/C I believe
M

 

Looks great! Did you cut the front for looks or function? If you don't cut out the grill is the heat exchanger blocked in some way?
Thanks
Mario

 

We had a couple of guys locally looking into this system and found several negatives. We are in a hot climate so they may not be valid for all parts of the country.

1/ Once the system reaches heat soak any air to air will recover more quickly. If the cooling reservoir was larger it would delay the heat soak issue but they you are taking up more space and adding more weight.

2/ The lower third of the radiator is covered which also affects the cooling of the motor itself. You may have a cooler intake charge but at the expense of the overall engine being hotter. I'm thinking that if the Mini worked in a satisfactory manner with 1/3 less radiator BMW would have cut the cost and put a smaller one in.

3/ Poor Air conditioning performance as more than half of the AC cooler is covered as well.

4/ Out here in Kalifornia the smog police will have a field day if the get a look under the hood. I do not know about other states but this would send you to the referee in a heart beat.

I am not trying to rain on anyone;s parade but in a hot climate or a tight SMOG state there are issues to be looked into.

 

Thanks guys.

Mario-
-I cut the front lower grille because I wanted to. It had no fitment problems with the additional radiator.

trackster-
-The additional radiator weighs very little. The whole system including the intercooler piece, lower radiator, pump, overflow tank, tubing and clamps, weighs something like 16 lbs. The added fluid isn't much either.
-I have yet to experience power loss due to heatsoak and witness slow recovery time. I haven't raced all day yet, but I have driven hard for a couple of hours... and I noticed no changes.
-My AC is almost always blasting, and it doesn't seem affected. It's 98 degress here today, and no problems.



I will be sure to update my experiences with the water to air, including bad ones. If I have a problem with it I'll talk about it openly, as I gain nothing from promoting Mini Madness. So far I'm just a happy customer, relating my opinion.

 

Like Mario said, the stock radiator remains untouched. The WAIC does replace the stock IC.
It took me a long time to install (near 8hrs), by myself. But I'm no mechanic and I'd never taken my bumper off and on before. I wanted to make sure I did everything exactly correct. I fit the lower radiator on several times until I got it right where I wanted it to be. It will cause problems if it touches the AC, so I made sure I had optimal clearance.


Here's a crappy 'paint' rendition I just drew while on the phone:



You know you love my drawing. This should give you an idea of the way it works, and the basic installation route.

 

Any updates on whether the water becomes heat soaked after extended spirited runs? I want to know the conditions that heat soak occured at, as well as time till the water was back to ambient. Water takes alot of time to cool off. Does the pump always circulate, even when not slaming it?

Nice drawing by the way. Looks like a textbook drawing. Don't be so modest.