this lesson was driven home last weekend while watching the grand am races at homestead. during the first portion of the race, it appeared that certain cars were superior and would run away from the field. the honda that won the ST race ran comfortably mid-pack or slightly better during the first stint. after a pit stop and driver change, the honda consistently moved through the pack, took the lead and checked out on his nearest competitor. as other cars started sliding w/ greasy tires, this car was smooth and fast. i later learned that the driver was a regular daytona prototype driver. similarly, two subies that were team cars qualified closely (4th and 6th i believe). during the opening stages of the event, one of the cars totally left his teammate and was one of the faster cars on the track. after the driver change, both cars ran similar lap times and finished closely. this same phenomenon was apparent throughout the field. slow cars suddenly became competitive and fast cars found themselves mid-pack (or worse). the old adage about "tightening the nut behind the wheel" is true! i've spent much $$$ improving my car, but the next pile of dollars will be spent where it will have the most impact.....on me, the driver. it was eye-opening, at least, to see the difference that a good driver can make......greg

 

I hear ya!I thought I was good in my Modified "S",until a stock "S" always caught up with me in corners.Sure,I could leave him(because of horsepower)on the straights,but his experience on the track told me I need more Driving Schools. I had alot of fun at Spring Mountain(part of AMVIV),I just need to convince my wife that we both need more Driving Schools!(Not Racing on Public Roads!!)

 

Driving school is the best bang for the buck. Nothing beats seat time. As you know HP is only part of the equation. It's one of my favorite things to catch & pass a car that I know is faster than mine.

+1 No racing on public roads.

 

That part of the reason I love my Cooper - everybody should be faster than me.

 

when i looked at the run list for my first DE i thought "oh, sh@t". i'm over that thinking now that i've done 4 DE's.. in even my first session, i checked out on much "faster" cars. i'm too old to street race......the ricer boys would just laugh anyway.....take it to a track near you as soon as possible! and as often as possible! i was going to come up w/ a porche "kill" sticker, but i now know that my MINI isn't large enough.....go fast, have fun (on the track).

 

I've had it go both ways. I remember a white 1st gen Miata, and I thought, oh good, I like to run with these things. He left me for dead. No way I could keep up with him. On the other hand, I've had G35's, Vettes, and Cobra's point me by because I was right behind them everywhere but the straights; they were just starting out. When I moved up to C group, I thought, d*mn, these guys are a lot faster. The joy is in the learning.

 

I didn't mean to come off cocky. The shoe has been on the other foot for me as well.

 

i couldn't shake a Nissan Altima Type R (or some similar designation) at Sebring. that brings me back to the point of this post.....good drivers can go faster than "fast" cars. i'm not always on the positive side of this equation, but i'm working on it.....so many people on this forum are hp driven and neglect the best way to fast.....learn to drive.....i, too, want more hp, better braking and better handling, but i know that the weak link is me! i'll be at two more DE's in May. just my opinion on the next great "mod". i guess, howver, if you are reading this thread, you may already know this to be true. it may open more eyes in the "performance" thread!

 

Yep best bang for the buck. Many folks just won't buy that.

Last July I was at a track with another MINI that had way more HP & handling mods than I. Poor fellow didn't have a clue. In fact before we went out he even told me to get out of his way when I see him. I said OK I will. I did see him as I put a lap on him in a 20 minute session.

I tried to talk with him & explain that given some instruction & more track days he'd get faster. Just got a funny look from him. He kept asking what mods I had. None I replied.

 

Crashton: off topic.....i'm 47....do i qualify to be a member of the old farts motoring club? most of the people that i spank on the track are at least 20 yrs younger.....proudly older than most.....

 

If you feel like an old fart then, yep you are one. If you think you're not quite there we can put you in the apprenticeship program.

I believe one reason that fellow told me to get out of his way was.....he's maybe 20 & I'm an old fart. Of course old guys drive slow. Every 20 year old knows that.

 

Crashton: the problem is that i feel like an old fart until i get to the track....then all bets are off....i'd guess that i really am an old fart...young guns beware!

 

Yes once out of pit lane & on the track I'm 25 years younger. Guess we've found the fountain of youth.

 

i used to work for walter cronkite....his late wife betsy had the best description of our condition that i've ever heard.....she said, "you're only young once in a while"........

 

I'm 56. Patience is probably the one big thing we have over the 20 year olds. It's a good thing to learn and surprisingly useful on the track.

...and by the way, Paul Newman is 82, and he's still doing it.
http://www.starpulse.com/news/index....ewman_s_racing

Crash - I did not take you as sounding cocky. I hope I don't sound that way.

 

If the Fountain of Youth is known as the HPDEs we participate in, then the MINI is the container in which it's served!

 

Betsy was a very smart lady.

Yep Paul's still at it. He's a real role model for all us Grey beards. One of my hero's.

Hey Jeff did you just call my car a container.

This thread is turning into an Old Fart fest.

 

maybe we need to start a DRL (dinosaur racing league) thread.....

i actually started this thread to encourage people to invest in themselves vs. hardware. any youngsters out there care to comment on your plans for getting around the track faster?

 

Well, since the OP was encouraging people to go out and get some driving instruction and experience, I'd like to note one thing. At first, I always thought, hey, it's a measly Cooper, I'd get run over out there. It was reading about snid's various exploits that motivated me to try it, and for that I would like to say thank you.

Anyone reading this should take the next opportunity to get out there and learn something.

I don't think snid is an old fart. Yet.

 

LOL!!!

Hey snid you are here by appointed as an Apprentice Old Fart.

 

A "measly" Cooper is a pretty quick lil car in the curves, and it's big brother, the MCS, isn't any slouch, either...nor on the straightaways during the HPDEs.

Nawww, Chuck, I'd NEVER call your car a container, but then, you ARE a member of the Old Farts Club...and most farts are caused by what's inside a certain container....

Old Farts...hmmmm...takes one to know one, right? BTW, I'm 61, and life IS fun!

 

Note to self.... buy new air freshener for the MINI.

Wow Jeff, you are old enough to be my older brother.

Life IS good!

 

snid: if you would like to be officially annointed as an "old fart", just profess your wish (as i have) here.

 

Too late bean, he's already been appointed as an apprentice. No turning back now.

 

apprentice status it is for snid. are all of the youngsters over on M/U or what? young un's need DE's too....