The language hasn't been finalized, but a few organizations - NASA - are inlcuding a soft safety warning about the use of airbags and helmets. They advise disabling the airbag for a track event.

Anyone have any thoughts? Anyone know wich relay controls the airbag in the Mini.

Michael

 

I was once in the passnger seat (at a DE) for an airbag deployment. The driver in that case seemed to suffer no ill effect. But I've often wondered what might happen if there was a need to continue driving after the deployment. In a properly equipped track car, I think I'd rather have my airbag diabled.

Depending on how you do it, you'll likely have to have it reset after the event.

 

Yep, bought an open faced helmet because of that concern. No first hand knowledge though.

 

OK, I'm missing the point. What is the problem with helmets and airbags?

 

If you have an airbag deployment with a full face helmet, the airbag may strike the face/chin shield. That has apparently caused injuries to neck and/or head that were worse than would have happened without the face shield. Depends also on how far forward you have your seat. Many if not most serious drivers have their seat much closer to the wheel and more upright than the average kid on the street does. If you are doing the gangster lean with a helmet on, there is no way it could hit your face. Of course, if you are doing the gangster lean and are in an accident you will probably submarine under the belt and strangle yourself anyways.....
Enjoy yours!

 

I believe most of the concern came from studies on airbags on F1 cars and full face helmets. So if you have a full-face helmet be sure to disable the airbag on your McLaren.

 

Thanks for explaining. No worries for me, since my track car has no air bags. However, it's nice to know what the issues are, especially since so many of my students do have air bags and most wear full face helmets. for some time I've been encouraging drivers of airbag-equipped cars to use a 9 & 3 hand position instead of 10 & 2 to protect them in a deployment. I guess this is just one more thing to consider.

Aside from disabling the airbag for the weekend, there's not much for a driver witha full face helmet to do is there? We can't very well start promoting the gangster lean seating position now can we?

 

I guess the question now is how do you disable the airbag for the drivers event. Anyone know how?

 

The language that I have read pointed to more broken jaws than other injuries. The frequency aside, one broken neck ain't exactly the same.

I prefer a full face helmet to help protect my face and eyes from flying debris in the vent of a roll-over...picking glass and soil from my eyes probably wouldn't be too comfortable.

Racing is dangerous...just trying to make it a bit less so is encouraging.

I was invited to my dealership to speak with one of the techs "on the side" about disabling the airbag. In a more formal setting the dealership expressed a concern for liability.

Michael

 

 

Three of us were running M3s Saturday at LRP. One of the fellows from Germany remarked, "we make these cars as safe as possible and you Americans wear helmets." Apparently, helmets are not the norm at the 'Ring' according to this guy...I dunno about... In any event, the discussion about helmets and airbags loomed large over a portion of this PDA group. They spoke about broken jaws and worse.

This group's opinion? An open face helmet is desired with an airbag and closed face without an airbag.

A great day at LRP in any event.

 

I've heard the same consensus. Open face with bags, closed without.

 

Is disableing the airbag as simple as pulling the fuse? I know this works with the ABS.

 

Seems like flawed thinking, given the number of hazzards associated with open windows and open face helmets, but ok...

Personally, unless I've got a harness/seat/rollbar I wouldn't think about disabling an airbag.

 

This whole thing has taken on all the characteristic of an internet legend.

It originated at the FIA, where a paper mentioned that in case of airbag deployment it was possible that jaw injuries "could not be ruled out" when a full face helmet was used (Hubert Gramling, FIA Institute, FT3/AF, 18.5.1999).

More than 5 years later the SCCA picked up on this and issued an advisory memo on the subject (Nov 16, 2004). As far as I know there's been no subsequent regulation on the subject by the SCCA (corrections welcome).

There's a fundamental logical flaw in the whole argument, which is this: in order to justify either disabling the airbag or instead using an open face helmet, one must first demonstrate that the risks of doing either of those things aren't greater than the risks you're trying to eliminate.

Not only has this not been demonstrated, but the airbag/full face helmet/jaw injury problem has so far failed to materialize here in the real world. The overhwelming majority of HPDE participants wear full face helmets, and most drive cars with active airbags. In those wrecks I've been aware of where the airbag deployed there have been no such injuries. This doesn't meant that it can't happen or hasn't happened, but clearly it's not an epidemic problem.

So in the absence of any actual proven risk, much less a demonstrated effective remedy for the so far non-existent problem, I choose to wear a full face helmet with an active airbag.

Neil
05 MCS
96 M3 - track car

 

http://www.scca.com/_Filelibrary/Fil...agAdvisory.pdf

This a link to the bulletin sent out by the SCCA on Nov. 16th, 2005.

 

2004.
This subject was hashed out in this thread.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=37210

 

Just think about the seating position in an F1 car or similar, it really isn't the same thing. One could imagine how a full face helmet would cause your head to be pressed further back with respect to the body when compared to no helmet... but that is all it is, imagination. No testing to speak of on the subject and have face planted and similar many times while dirt bike racing as a teen I can tell you that your face gets very close to the front of the helmet in such a crash even when the helmet is extremely tight.

Dave

 

I understand the injury arguments for and against disabling the airbag.

My biggest concern is not so much that as the airbag being set off during an event by coming in contact with another car.

Have there been any incidents of being hit under breaking where the air bag deployed?

Cheers,
Jack

 

Aren't (front) airbags only supposed to deploy in frontal impacts? And fortunately car-to-car contact at HPDE's is very rare indeed.

I've heard of one case of unintentional airbag deployment several years ago at Grattan. A P-car landed very hard after the jump between turns 4 and 5 and the driver's airbag fired. Must have been quite a surprise.

Neil
05 MCS
96 M3

 

Lighten up you all!