Last weekend was my first HPDE at Watkins Glen with Trackmasters. I had a blast, but it's running a little more expensive than I planned with a 2nd brake job this afternoon. I was running Ferodo DS2500 and TSW rotors all the way around with caliper stiffening bushings and stainless lines. I now have a vibration when applying the brakes that I can feel in the pedal and steering wheel. The DS2500s were coming apart, so I replace them. Still have the vibration so that leaves the rotors and I just ordered replacements.
My instructor said that I used the brakes to their limits and should look at a track pad if I do future DEs.
My question is, will a track pad cause warped rotors also? What's my next course of action should I take for the next track day?

Yeah, I know I spelled rotors wrong.

 

what is commonly diagnosed as a "warped rotor" is often pad material deposited on the rotor. it will cause the same feel. did you inadvertently apply the e-brake out of habit after a session? it is also a good idea to roll the car a foot or two a few minutes after parking so that the rotors cool more evenly. track only pads are in the future for any DE driver if the push the car and progress.

i have never had a warped rotor w/ either dual-purpose or track pads.

 

The other thing that can do that is grooved rotors (ask me how I know)--and again, it still comes down to the pad. Having the rotors warp is actually the least likely cause, but its possible.

 

i have slotted (grooved) rotors. no problems here. these rotors regularly get heated to over 1000* F.

 

It's not the slots--I just put slotted rotors on too--but the grooves you get in the rotor itself (You have a bit of grooving in your picture--doesn't look to bad though). The grooves are concentric circles AROUND the rotor, rather than the slots put in perpendicular--you can see them in your picture, although they don't look that deep. If you really groove it (heat/pad are the main culprits), you'll feel a shiver with the brakes.

 

i gotcha now. these rotors were replace shortly after the photo was taken. i'm on my third set of front rotors and second set of aftermarket rear rotors....hard braking costs $$$, but it is fun.

 

Im using TSW slotted rotors, EBC greenstuff pads, and super blue fluid, 1 track day and lot of daily driving, with no issues at all. very happy with my brake setup so far.

 

How well did you bed in the pads and rotors?

You can warp rotors by not using a "star" pattern when torquing the lug bolts and even by improperly torquing the lug bolts.

Definitely have the rotors checked out before replacing them to make sure they are actually warped. There may only be some pad material on them that could be taken off by having them resurfaced.

 

I'm careful when torquing everything, so that's not the cause. I'd be surprise if there is significant brake pad left on the rotors. I had a 3 hour highway trip home from the track and a weeks worth of commuting and they still don't feel right. I ordered a new set, just in case, but I'm going to take the old ones into a shop to see if they really are warped.
Correct me if I'm wrong, most places can't cut the slotted rotors, right?
I also ordered a brake rotor hone...

Never used one before, but if there is pad material still on the rotor this should do the trick.

 

Pad deposit won't go away with normal driving.

Some slotted rotors can be turned by some shops, but it is usually better to replace them unless it is just some pad material deposited on it. Ask the shop if they can check the rotor for deposits (high spots) and take it down.
Careful with the rotor hone........you want to be careful you don't create to much run-out.

 

I have to add something to this topic:

Why are you buying slotted rotors?
I run stock rotors (yes stock as in supplied by MINI)

I have run stock pads/PBR Ceramics/HP Streets/HP Plus on street and track for HPDEs in the past.

I now run HT10s for DE's only

I have SS lines and run ATE Super Blue on an otherwise stock set up.

I am not the fastest, but I am not slow - in fact myself, Bean and MCT have a good time out on the track together as we are closely matched.

Bean has a BBK and loves it, and I do think he uses it to his advantge on the track, but my stock set up does very well (HT10s have no fade, even on a heavy braking track with good long straights to gain some nice triple digit speeds)

I just debate if your stock rotors would not be good enough for you.

Cool down has much to do with your life of your brakes, a good cool down lap without touching the brakes if possible, then no e-brake after parking it, and as Bean said above, after about 4 or 5 mins, rolling your car a couple of feet forward or back will give you proper cool down.

Also, do not torque your lugs when hot, wait until they cool down and you are about to go back out for the next session before torquing them again.

 

Often, when I feel brake pedal pulsations simply re-bedding the pads will make them go away.

 

+1. My wife's FX gets deposits easily (she doesn't drive fast, ever so she never gets the brakes heated up). I take it out and re-bed the pads and they're smooth again.

 

My experience has been that deposits from a track day are much harder to get off. Hope it works..

 

I'm on my 8th set of front rotors and 4th set of rears. This is not a cheap hobby.

 

I just reread this and have a comment about the pads........

You state that the 2500's were coming aprt....what do you mean? If they were actually delaminating/breaking up it sounds like you were being way to aggressive with your braking and the brakes were heating up to high. You might want to try and be a little smoother in the braking. Don't stand on the brakes, just smoothly apply pressure and start braking a little earlier.
Or go to a much more aggressive track only brake kit (rotor/pads).

 

After last weekend at LRP, my wilwood 11.75 rotors are pulsating very badly. The rotors have three track days and about 3k mi on them, so I'm really hoping it's just deposit. I'll try to get out this weekend and do some re-bedding to see if that helps. I tried to contact Todd at TCE, but no response yet.

BTW - I have found the 11.75 kit with the poly b pads to be absolutely incredible. Next stop - ducts. I love the track!

mb

 

Please post what you hear from Todd--I just put that same kit on, going to the track in two weeks. I'm running the 20's at the track, but I think I'm going to order some Poly B's for later this summer.

Are you considering the Way ducts, or is there something else out there? That's next on my list, after an engine tune (and hopefully cam).

 

Geez......no! Don't run the 20's. (bp20's) I did at that Trackmasters event with Coopersharon and I glazed my rotors and toasted the 20's. Also boiled the fluid at the end of the 3rd session. It took some elbow grease to clean them up so I could go back out and but I only got one more session before I called it quit's. I didn't bring extra pads so I only did 4 out of the 8 sessions. I learned my lesson and now have stocked up on pads. Poly A's, poly D's for autox, and 10's for street. Plan on removing the rotors so I can get to the backside since the dust shields are still mounted.

 

Don't run the 20s on the track! I did two weeks ago, got everything too hot, and the paint on the backing plate of the pad melted and caught fire while I was driving. While this was "awesome" to onlookers (a fairly large flame coming out of the wheel at the end of a straight), it meant the pads weren't up to the work.

So I went with poly B this past weekend at LRP and now I have this insane shuddering from the brakes. Todd said it's probably pad material that's a result of a hot-spot. He suggested getting them cut or turned. I'm assuming "cut" means disassembled and taken to a machine shop, but what is "turned?" Forgive my ignorance!

As far as ducts, I think gnatster can do them for the aero kit (I have it), but he hasn't responded to a PM, so who knows. I guess I'd go with the way kit if I had assurances it'd work for my aero kit at a decent price.

Oh - the poly Bs are awesome for track work - dramatic stopping power compared to stock and bp-20/10. It's probably too much front brake, but that just means I need something more aggressive in the rear.

mb

Edit - I have a bunch of poly b sets as extras - PM me if you want some for your track day in two weeks.

 

Pm'd you. Poly B's it is then, I'll keep the 20's for the street when the 10's go, should be ok...

I don't have the aerokit, but I'm seriously thinking of the Way kit, especially after those previous two posts.

One reason I was going to use the 20's is I have a two hour drive to the track, and its going to be stretching it changing pads--think it would be ok to put the Poly B's on the night before, and drive to the track with them? Should be very little braking--pretty much a straight shot on the highway. Worse case scenerio, I could leave earlier and change them at the track, but I like the security of having everything ready the night before.

And thanks for the heads up!

 

Todd recommends that you not use the poly b on the street. I didn't listen to him before a track day last season, and the drive up was rainy and cool. It was a bit hairy! Also, the dust from the poly b got wet and rusted on my wheels, and now it's impossible to get off. So I've listened to Todd's advice since then. Also, in response to my latest question about the shuddering, he said to keep the polys for the track only and to use only the 10s or 20s on the street.

It takes minutes to change the pads even for a mechanical moron like myself - I just make sure to get to the track when it opens so I don't have to rush. Plus, I change wheels anyway, so while the car is up and the wheels are off, it's easy to do the swap.

mb

 

Ok, if its wet I won't bother. If it's dry I might--I think I can get there with minimum of braking, then I can just change them at the end of the day for the drive home. My tires can be a royal pain in the butt to get off; the rings are so tight on the hub. I don't mind struggling with it at the end of the day, when time isn't a factor but I don't want to have to rush it just before a session. I'll have to see what time my sessions are--if its too early, I'd have to leave at like 5 AM, and that's going to be pushing it...

 

cct1: good choice. i am among the legions of "no BP-20's on the track". i'm using up my last set as street pads. very little noise and they work well enough cold. mine couldn't last through five sessions w/ enough pad left to drive home. i now run poly h's. expensive, but awesome. i have enough tire to handle the added torque of the h's. they last well too. rotor wear is not great, but not horrible. pay to play. have fun at your track day and keep us posted.
greg

 

Bean - how are you avoiding this pad material build-up that leads to the pulsating? If this is going to happen to me every time at the track, I'm going to be less than pleased!

Thanks,

mb