Attn: All Drag Racers
Stahl Headers manufactures headers for the Mini Cooper S. Jere Stahl is in the NHRA Hall of Fame! What are you waiting for? See the DMH web site for details.

 

because im not going to buy a product from a guy whose name is on a header just because he used to drag race... Do you have any quantitative numbers on the header? If it is a better header than other headers that are currently available and makes more power than i might be a buyer... Do these headers make any more hp or torque than say an obx or a supersprint?

 

No one is asking you to buy them. I was simply making Drag Racers aware that Stahl Headers are available. The products you mentioned compared to the Stahl header are like the difference between night and day. It is why I had them commissioned. Read the Stahl product description on the DMH web site and you’ll get the idea. You can then judge for yourself whether you think they might be of benefit to your application.
Concerning numbers, it is my policy never to release them. They are not particularly applicable to anyone else as the variables are different. (I write about that on the DMH web site.) Anyone who buys them can post data, but I won’t. Neither will any racer that I know of.

 

Will these headers w/cat bolt up to the JCW exhaust?

 

No, modifications will be necessary.

It should also be noted that for optimal performance from the collector back 3" tubing is required; straight out or a cone into 2 - 2 1/4” tubing.

 

I know that stahl makes some really nice products. I was commenting that you baiscally asked us "what are you waiting for?" and i just told you what i was waiting for. You then replied with its your policy to never post gains... and no racer ever will... THAT is HILLARIOUS to me! But thats your policy, and your personal comment and i will not attack you on that... i will just say


i do understand that the OBX header is pretty much garbage but for $200... it made a big differnce to my car... hence the low 1/4 time. The construction of the OBX isn't the greatest nor is the fitment but... it works.

And personally i am not a fan of any of the 800 dollars and up headers... they don't make anymore power, and they cost alot more money. Personally i dont see the benefit of those brands of headers, and i want to know what was going to seperate Stahl from the rest of the "elite" headers.

i will say this, i do like the way that they have differnt headers for different power levels.

 

WTF??? This thread makes me laugh! Buy my header it is made by ________ and is so great you don't need numbers to buy it!

Why does NAM always have to be going this direction. Whether is larger blowers or plasma boosters it seems to be mostly hype that sells on here. Then again isn't that what marketing is all about???

 

Just as with any true (serious) race shop no numbers are for release. They would do you no good as your application is most likely different than the next guys. Same with the testing parameters. All it does it lead to disinformation. Your anger about NAM Vendors should be directed at those who release numbers with no relevance.
I was a merely pointing out that the headers that are on winning cars in club and pro racing are now available for the Mini.
Since you do not seem to know who Stahl is or the technologies he pioneered maybe you could research him and find out what. You might just come to understand the benefit of our exhaust system.

 

All that DMH is stating is that he does not believe in posting HP/TQ gains due to the fact, that the numbers are only accurate for the car it was tested on and may not be accurate for an identically set up car. Dont flame him on it as it is true, and his policy. Simply just ask yourself if you are willing to spend that much on a header, and if so research it a bit and see if someone who got on on their MINI is satisfied and if so see how it effected their MINI.

BEATNUT

 

just so everyone knows...

the OBX is on the fastest non turboed non nitrous car

 

Oh well you must not be a real racer. You posted dyno numbers.

 

I appreciate any and all constructive comments made by those who actually have first hand knowledge about the high performance products that I develop and sell such as the Stahl headers. But if you do not meet the mentioned criteria no comment would be the appropriate response rather than unkind remarks.

 

are you the sole distributor of Stahl headers?

 

"Jere Stahl has been making the highest quality headers available since the late 60's" He commented on the header, as I'd sent him photos of the flange and primaries so he knew what I bolting his head up to!

I've posted a picture of the unit, and while it's not in yet (long story unrelated to the header) it is a thing of beauty! And this is from an OBX header owner (But not for much longer).

From what I've seen of what's out there, this is the first header (other than customs) for the Mini where someone said "heck with the stock cat back, let's make something with proper primary length" It moves the cat back quite a bit. If you're looking for a simple bolt on, this isn't it. If you're looking for a serious exhaust, this is as close as I've seen for the Mini.

Matt

 

Yes, I am the sole distributor.

 

It would seem to me that any vendor willing to develop new products for the MINI community should be applauded and encouraged, not ripped and shredded. I understand what Don is saying, and I don't have any trouble understanding where he's coming from. He would rather not throw numbers out that are meaningless without context. Is that hard to understand? I think he's taking the high ground, and more power to him.

 

Seriously man do you know what you are talking about?

 

Yep. Sure do.

 

for any part out there, mentally add the phrase "after extensive testing, part XYZ has show to deliver 12 hp over baseline on a mildly modded car" Seriously, I've seen numbers posted I couldn't replicate, so the posting of numbers in itself is of dubious value. On the other hand, it's nice to see concrete examples of benefits derived, even if the use case isn't exactly the same as ones own car.

Personally, I've found the skepticism on parts here somewhat, um, between baffeling, amusing and sometimes a bit dissapointing. There are lots of common ways to improve performance in cars, and while the Mini ECU is difficult, it's still just a car. This place seems a bit insulated from the rest of the automotive world. Not that it's all bad, that's one of the things that makes NAM unique.

In the case of Stahl headers, one could beat the drum here about this or that, or look elsewhere for information if you really are interested. I guess if you are, you've already called Stahl or Don and spoken to them, and I guess if you aren't, then whatever is posted here won't really make a difference.

Matt

 

Good Answer!
Jim

 

I like this approach very much... "on my car , which is equipped with this and that on this day under theses conditions, I got this increase/decrease etc"..... and then the "your results may vary" would be nice.....

the reason for skepticism which at times goes to cynicism is that there are mods that (at best) without the complimentary mods do little....

As far as the Stahl header... after my experience with the 62 I think this is the only one I have seen that really makes sense...my question to Don has been the added SPL in the cabin..... I have taken off parts that are objectionably loud (this is a personal tolerance issue) My car is not a "***** to the walls" track car and Don leans in that direction.....

 

I think that there was a recent thread on dyno numbers -- I just can't find it.

The reason I do not post dyno numbers for the products that I have developed and brought to market (Stahl headers and Wegner heads) is that I think that there are simply too many variables to account for. Those variables not only include the dyno, the weather, the fuel, and the car’s hardware, but also the installed software and parameters altered. It is the very rare occasion that you would ever find two cars prepared the same and it doesn’t necessarily happen if you are building a backup or team car (see the race cars that Nuzzo is selling). Thus, I think the numbers are rather useless and only lead to the spread of disinformation and/or anger when the numbers do not add up. I do, however, believe in the stopwatch and that is why you’ll see me at the road race track.

I do realize that I seem to be in the minority on NAM (though not in the racing world where numbers are never published but rather held closely.) Even MTH, a product that I sell, has dyno numbers from Germany that I will post later – I am waiting for some translation.

But this thread is in the Drag Racing Forum and if I didn’t think that Stahl headers would lower your ET and increase your trap speed I would not have posted here.

 

So how much would a Stahl header lower ET over stock?

 

Well as Jere knows, win on Sunday sell on Monday, so I think Don you should send one over and we'll test it then send you it back dynoed and drag raced so you can start selling them like no tomorrow.

 

Don,

What approximately should we have done to our vehicle in order to take benefit of the Stage 3? I will be pushing over 230, just not yet.