Greetings all,
I'm in detailing hell and it's all my fault. In addition to my beloved MCS, I have one of the last US Mazda FD RX7s in black/black. I have never learned how to properly care for a car's paint and this poor RX7 shows it with bird poop that dried on it for a long time, scratches everywhere, and various hard water stains. I used to take it to a car wash place that did hand wax jobs (I watched, no power tools were used), but their towels must have been dirty because of all the scratch marks.

A while back, I made a significant investment in most of Griots Garage various detailing kits including a PC. I've learned a lot from them, but I'm really struggling with the RX7.

I washed, applied paint prep (who knows what was previously applied), clayed, then used (as per Griots instructions) machine polish 3 (fine), then 2(semi-fine), then 1(medium?) since I wasn't making any progress on the scratches and hard water spots. I made three passes with machine polish 1, then back to 2 and finished with 3. Then applied best in show wax. The surface looks a bit better, but is still a 10 footer car.

Now the paint from Mazda sucked to begin with on these cars, so a repaint is being considered for its future. At this time however, I'd like to save some change and put some elbow grease into this project to get her down to maybe a 2-3 footer.

Is this possible?
Does anyone have recommendations for a more aggressive machine polish I can try?
Would photos help explain what I'm up against?

Thank you for any recommendations you can offer.

 

One of the things that Griots reccomends for polishing black cars is to finish up with machine polish 4. The Macine polish 1 is pretty aggressive but post some pictures and some people may be able to help.

 

Shouldn't you go from medium to semi-fine then to fine? I've never used these products, but that would seem the way to do it.

 

yep.... or you can go even further, start with mild, work to aggressive till its all off, then work back to fine....

 

Ck your PM.

 

man, this value "footer" is confusing the hell out of me.

let's see a high res pict of your paint surface.

 

10 footer = a car that looks good from 10 feet away, but any closer and you start to see the imperfections...

2-3 footer = better than the 10 footer, but with a few fine flaws that you can still see up close.


On the restoration story, I'd bet that you need to kick it up a notch in terms of abrasives (go more abrasive) and maybe switch pads... perhaps one of those 'fingered' pads that looks like an egg-shell mattress pad?

Hopefully OctaneGuy will find this thread and help. He has a lot more experience with finish restoration w/ the Meguiars products.

 

kenchan, sorry about the confusion about "footer". agranger explained it perfectly.

I think I wasn't clear on my polish usage. I started with a mild polish, then all the way to medium polish since the finish issues were not going away. I made three passes with the medium polish (Griots #1), then finished up by using semi-fine, then fine. Griots IMHO is not offering an aggressive polish since they don't want amateurs (like me) to screw up their paint by not following instructions.

I think I need suggestions for a more aggressive machine polish or different techniques than I've been using.

AntiqueCarNut, thanks for your PM (lucky you getting to go to PHX in during it's finest season )
I'll take some photos including a micro detail shot of some of the hard water stains. I suspect it's etched into the paint, but maybe if I get a good enough photo you can tell either way.

Thank you everyone for your suggestions!

 

I've heard of dilute white vinegar washes to help remove water spotting. I've never done it so I can't tell you how long to leave it on, how dilute to make the solution, effectiveness or any of the details. It might warrant some web searching, though...

 

np! i think it is more of my lack of vocab...afterall, English is my
second language. (i was thinking subsandwiches.. 10 footers...
damn ,this guy must be REALLY stressed out to have that much
appetite!)

You're right about the Polishes Griot's offers. They say their Polish1 is
only about 1/2 the cutting power of most polishes out on the market.
With that said, i would go back to Polish1 at 5.5speed and give it a few
more passes.

Im a complete novice too with buffers, so i would use something that is
not aggressive and just take your time. as you get better, you can use
a more course polish... but that's for someone with lots of experience like
Octaneguy and BradB, imho.

 

There are a couple of points here that no one has even mentioned.

1.) Not all paints are equal. Some paints are hard as diamonds and some are extremely soft. Infiniti paint is that way--polish until it's flawless, wipe with a microfiber, and the towel leaves behind micromarring.

2.) A PC can only do so much
Depending on the depth of the etching and scratches, Speednut MIGHT need a rotary buffer or even wetsanding to fix these defects, and in that case, he's going to want to hire a professional.

3.) Black paint requires extra work
Neglected black paint brought back to life requires an extra amount of work that may be out of your own capabilities. I strive for every car to be 1 inchers, but not all cars are amenable to that. Sometimes, they end up being 1 footers because of paint issues.

4.) Polishing paint isn't about trial and error
Advising someone to finish a black paint with a finer polish doesn't solve the problem if he hasn't removed the defects he began with. That is, if the paint is still oxidized, or is still scratched and marred, going to a finer process isn't going to solve anything. To restore the paint, he needs to thoroughly define the problem.

a.) Post current pictures (a far shot of the whole car, and various detail shots of the condition)
b.) Put your finger near the defect, and have the camera focus on your finger to keep the shot in focus.
c.) Shoot scratches from an angle, not headon, so the light catches the defect.

As far as scratches go, anything that your fingernail can catch is too deep for the PC, and maybe even the rotary. Just lightly run your fingernail across the scratch and if you feel it catch, all you can hope to do is minimize it.

Finally, if all else fails call a pro. I save people new paint jobs every single day.

Headed out now to polish out a BMW 750i. I restored a 94 Jaguar XJS yesterday--totally flawless--will post pix once processed.

Richard

 

 

That's why I asked for pictures. It is tough to give reccomendations without seeing what you are dealing with. I am by no means a pro, just someone with a little experience trying to help out.

 

hummm... my popcorn is starting to get stale. where's the picts?

 

I knew OG would chime in with some excellent restoration advice... I'm waiting for pics as well (and pics of the older Jag!)

 

Ohh, you're waiting for pix from ME? LOL I thought you were waiting for Speednut to post pix.

I'm out in the field buffing the 750i. That thing is coooool. Insert key fob in dash, push brake pedal, push START button. Vroooom. Oh did I mention that the seat conformed to my body..feels like one of those reclining massage chairs... and the steering wheel positioned to me? LOL

I won't get to processing the pix until tonight sdo keep that popcorn popper handy!

Richard

 

well, i did the fingernail test on my car and my swirl definitely does not
catch on my fingernail... and was inspired to re-do my car. so
got out my orbital and Polish2 and start zappin at the quarter. sure
enough, i was able to rid the swirl. im going to redo
the whole car.

thanks octaneguy!

and my popcorn's getting real stale... gonna make a new bag.
but im gonna finish my car first tonite.

 

The fingernail test doesn't really apply to swirls, but hey if it works, who is to argue? LOL

There are two things you need to master when using the PC.

1.) Focus on a small area
When you're buffing the paint, don't work on the whole car at once. Choose a panel about the size of a MF towel, say 12x12. Then work the product in and buff it swirl free. Then move over to the next panel, and do the same. Make sure to overlap panels so that there are no "swirly" gaps between the panels you are buffing.

2.) Test Spot
Whenever you work on any paint, always do a test spot. Lay down some blue painters tape. Then lay a MF over that, and tape it down. Now choose your products, pads, and tools and try to buff the area adjacent to the tape so it's swirl free. Once you think you've done it, remove the tape and towel and inspect it in the sun. If it indeed is perfect, then repeat that process over the entire car and you're assured of ending with a satisfactory finish. Nothing worse than skipping the test spot, working for 5 hours on a car, then realizing that all the swirls are still there and having to do it all over again!!

Richard

 

I'd skip the popcorn for these photos; likely to give you an upset stomach. I believe these may be a detailer's worst nightmare!

I hereby dub this photo series "crappy Mazda paint and it's idiot owner..."

WARNING: The thumbnails are clickable and lead to a VERY LARGE photo. I give file detail info as an extra warning to those who are broadband impaired.

(file info: 513KB, 2250x1500) The victim of neglect. She was completely covered with dust and the sides still have the remains of the Griots clay & speed shine combo. The hood is where the worst damage is located. I did a quick speed shine & micro fiber wipe of the hood only. The hood is the only surface that I've worked on so far and keep in mind this is after several Griots medium, then a semi-fine, and a fine machine polish followed by an application of best in show wax.

(file info: 991KB, 2924x2712) This photo shows a small section of the hood. I feel like an astronomer looking in a telescope while viewing this photo. I think each white dot is a pit and is either picking up the work lights or is polish residue stuck in a valley and not removed. Also notice the "snowflake" which is about 2-3mm in diameter. If memory serves me correct, this was from sap of a tree at one of my old work places.

Full resolution crop of just the 2-3mm "snowflake". I'm no expert, but I think even I can declare "this ain't a good sign". While running my fingernail over this spot, it feels smooth.

(file info: 229KB, 2002x860) Next two photos show some more detail in other locations on the hood. I tried to avoid reflections while taking these photos, but it seems to help show the damage detail.

(file info: 512KB, 1839x1521) The work light reflection really shows how badly scratched the paint is.

Some of my observations / questions while looking at the damage and the photos:
1. Quite a few scratches can be easily felt by a fingernail. Needs a pro to fix? Or just learn to live with them.
2. There are a lot of light scratches that I'm assuming were caused by multiple passes with medium polish, then not followed up as much on the semi-fine and fine polishes.
3. Pin dot pitting is horrendous. Anything that can be done here? Can polish be removed from the pits if that's what's in them? Or am I looking at primer or bare metal?
4. Can some types of wax "hide" a bit of the damage?
5. My goal is a 2-3 footer and a 1 footer would be beyond my expectations. This car is a driver, so a 1 incher isn't worth the time or energy to me. I'll save that for a proper repaint.
6. I don't mind experimenting pro detailing techniques on this car to learn them. I really don't think I could make it much worse.

Thank you to everyone for helping me out with this big project, I really appreciate it!!!

P.S. Richard, I think now you can see why I'm anxious to view your detailing DVD.

 

Thanks for taking the tiime to post those pix and make comments. That snowflake looks like paint cracking. Take a look at this bird poo etching. This was etched straight through the base coat. Impossible to fix.



From this test spot you can see that although I buffed out the swirls, the etching remains



So whether it was sap, or whatever, its not likely fixable since it's beneath the clearcoat.

For this image, take some rubbing alcohol and dilute it 50% with water and wipe the hood clean. This should remove any contaminants in these chips. There are too many foreign matter (residue??) here to know for certain what we are looking at.


As for focusing your pictures, it helps to put your finger on the spot--pointing near the defect. Let the camera focus on your finger, and your scratch/defects will be in focus as well.

These are some pretty heavy scratches


Afraid you're going to need more than a PC to fix these.

What year is this car? When you buffed the paint, did your foam pad during black? Just wondering if this was a single stage or clear coat paint system. Not sure when were the last the RX7s black/black.

 

Step 1: Stop washing the car with Ajax and steel wool...

 

yah, i did only the rear quarter yesterday (actually was working on a
mechanical issue on my other car most of the evening).... anyway,
just concentrated on that one small panel. I wasn't sure how deep I
could go so didn't think i could get it out, but you mentioned on the
other thread that there's misconception regarding oribtal buffers that
people think we would easily burn through the clear. as you mentioned,
i didn't burn through the clear but cleanly got the swirls out.
im not afraid to try things on my car (how i got started on PDR hitting
my other car with golf ***** ) so im going to go ahead and do the rest
of the polishing tonight and wax tomorrow.

Thanks for the tip on the test spot. i only have 2 polishes still, both
are very mild (Griot's Polish2 and Polish3). My root cause for
not being able to remove the swril the first time is my orbital's speed
was too slow. I sped it up to 5.5 last night and gave even pressure
where the pad rotated about 1x per second making about 5 passes
over the same general work area. Then let off a little to 2x rotation
per second and did another 3 passes and stopped. seems to do a
great job with Polish2. im going to go over it with Polish3 after
im done with the rest of the car using Polish2.

 

yeh, i can see the bodyshop rubbing their hands together to get started
on painting it.

 

btw, octaneguy or anyone, what kind of earplugs do you use?


that orbital can get pretty noisy. i don't want to loose hearing from this.

 

Earplugs? What?????? Had to do it....

Hmmm, you could wear hearing protectors, but then you might miss the sound of the pads burning through your paint....NOT!

Ok, let me add one thing--on the MINI, it's very hard to burn paint using a PC. On other cars that have sharp edges--where the paint is thin, you have a chance at burning through the paint......

As for your question--my Shop Vac is much louder and more painful than the PC. Are you working in a garage or outdoors?

Richard