I know this has been discussed before, but we did not touch on this particular part.

Ok, I have been looking up this information for a little while, but just don't know the frequencies and terminology. What I want is a mobile repeater or something that can increase our communication range while on runs. I have an FCC license which grants me the use of up to 50 watts.

• Can this be done?
• Is it cost effective?
• Is there something else that the club can use on runs?

Thanks

 

PM sent.

 

Does anyone know anything about 2 meter ham radios, like licensing requirements, applicability to what we do on runs, etc. Thanks in advance!

 

When I did some research on buying a 'perm' mount high power mobile(GMRS) for DCMM the issue was that it could not (at least legally and maybe not at all) communicate with the license free FRS radios. I am pretty sure a repeater is only allowed on the GMRS (license req'd) bands.

We could do long range if everyone had GMRS licensed radios, but of course that's not the case.

I'm sure a HAM will kick in here to clarify.

 

I just got clarification on the 2 meter ham... probably legal, but the licensed ham operators take a very dim view of folks using them for recreational purposes, and I was told they would likely hunt us down and hurt us for using them for such a trivial reason as motoring. Bah!

Anybody want to comment on the possibility of CB radios (other than the usual bad feelings for them). After all, these were created pretty much for what we need... on the road communications. I haven't used one since the 70s when they became popular with the, shall we say, criminal element, and the airwaves were so jammed with personal conversations that their usefulness for road work became nil.

 

Yes, I was thinking of options for just the leader and sweep to communicate at higher power. This would be a big help in the old 'is everyone through the light' issue etc. A easy way to achieve this would be to buy a pair of push to talk type cell phones and loan them to drive leaders. This way there'd be no license issues etc.

Of course you have to have cell service and not be too far out in the boonies. Even though they act like walkie talkies they are actually working as cell phones each to the tower and provider. They can't communicate when there's no cell service.

Here's a decent overview of the issues at http://www.nihill.net/rigmrs/need2know.htm

 

From the Wiki entry...

Recently, hybrid FRS/GMRS consumer radios have been introduced that have 22 channels, instead of the 14 channels associated with FRS. On this type of radio, channels 8-14 are strictly license-free FRS channels: Transmitting on all channels above channel 14 requires a license, and transmitting on the shared FRS/GMRS channels 1-7 also requires a license, IF the effective radiated power is greater than 500 milliwatts (1/2 watt). It is the responsibility of the radio user to read and understand all applicable rules and regulations regarding GMRS. The FCC rules and statements regarding the use of hybrid radios on channels 1-7 addresses the need for GMRS licensing only when operating under the rules that apply to the GMRS.

Many hybrid radios have an ERP that is lower than 1/2 watt on channels 1-7, or can be set by the user to operate at low power on these channels. This allows hybrid radios to be used under the license free FRS rules if the ERP is less than 1/2 watt AND the unit is certified for FRS operation on those frequencies. Only one maker of hybrid FRS/GMRS radios (Garmin) presently sells radios that will operate on the GMRS repeater channels; the common "22 channel" radios cannot be used with GMRS repeaters.

The requirement for GMRS licensing in the USA is ignored by the vast majority of users of these frequencies. Estimates of the number of hybrid FRS/GMRS radios sold to date range from 20 to 50 million units or more. This is compared with approximately 80,000 active GMRS licensees (per the FCC database). Enforcement against individuals is rarely, if ever, attempted. This has led to a lot of consternation among the "non-blister-pack" segment of the GMRS user population, who have significantly more expensive equipment, and have paid $85 for a license. (GMRS and FRS/GMRS radios are often sold in "blister packs" at electronic stores with the required application form for a license included among the warranty cards and safety notices.) Online communities such as GMRS Radio Information and Forums and Popular Wireless Magazines are encouraging GMRS enforcement.

 

this is the norm with the Jeep crowd, more useful given the terrain changes.

I didn't care to mount a whip for mine, so I used a small temporary mag-mount antenna and wired in a 12V plug on the transmitter. Total of about $70 spent. something like this small one:

 

I would be willing to go CB, these hand held two way jobs suck.

We've tried them at worky and they truly "no worky"

Nothing like calling for flaps on a night landing and......no flaps......if you fly then you know timing is everthing....I hate getting flaps when I'm on base in a banking descending turn to final rather than downwind when I'm straight and level ! That happened during a demo and though the crowd never knew, if you were out on the runway with me and my tech you would have heard my displeasure towards the Ground Station Operator and these silly radios......

 

Are you happy with the way CBs work, and do you think they might be a better choice for club runs than the Mattel toys we have now? Thanks!

 

a lot more range, but a bit more expensive, but yes. much better. it only works if everybody has them though, or at least a fair number

 

Could be a addition to the FRS. Just for the lead and sweep so the sweep could let the lead know when everyone is through a light etc.

 

It may not help much... but for the "Naked" Spring Fling on the 20th, I will have my new radios, which actually arrived at my office building at 10am on Friday but the mail guy didn't deliver them to my office by COB.

The key difference... my old ones that I used yesterday are 2W and the ones that arrived are 5W... also, the new ones have a cigarette lighter adapter, so I shouldn't have to worry about running out of juice.

Hopefully the transmissions from the front will be a little clearer on the 20th!

 

proper radio discipline is as important as proper equipment. I know I heard one person's voice more than any other...while it maybe funny to some, it's background chatter that can hamper proper communication.

another angle...a low power FM transmitter....find a an unused station like 87.1 or something and the run leader has xmit capability to all (obviously one way).

 

While I agree that it can interfere at times, part of the fun of going on runs with the club is the social aspect... including while we drive. Cracking jokes, commenting at interesting sights, etc. is all part of the fun of the experience, at least for us.

I certainly would hate to lose that. Driving in silence with just one-way communication from the leader would really put a damper on the experience.

I'm hoping that transmitting at 5W at all times will really improve the situation, at least for the leader getting the word out. I'll do some road testing with these soon. The fact they have a cigarette lighter adapter makes all the difference for me in terms of peace of mind about using higher wattage.

 

Radio Protocols.....one problem is everyone thinks its full duplex and it ain't, a little education about waiting to say something would help.....

I like the banter that goes on too, when its clear and everyone isn't stepping on each other.....

 

Not sure where you got the info on 2 meter ham equipment, concerning being "probably legal", but I can assure you that you'll need a ham license to transmit.

Obviously, the effort to obtain a ham license is way more than anyone would want to expend for the sake of our runs.

On the other hand, there are at least 2 hams in DCMM, so we could just ALWAYS be at the front and the rear for every run. Yeh... right..

Byron NO3X (amateur Extra Class).

 

nobody is saying no goofing around, certainly not me. I'm saying that I heard one voice more than anybody else, but that's not new in DCMM.

 

 

no popcorn needed. it's already been said and she's proud of it. I'm just saying....it's counterproductive. I found myself turning the radio off and turning the stereo up and just following the car in front. as creseida has said about ignoring my NAM posts... 'blessed relief'

 

Well, I popped the bubble pack this afternoon and took a closer look at my new 2-way radios... unfortunately, it seems that the cigarette lighter adapter they give you is for the charger, not to connect directly to the radio itself.

So stupid! Who wants to wait 12 hours to charge the batteries in your car when it would be MUCH better just to plug the radio into the car and use it there?

When are these manufacturers going to "get it"?

Oh well - at least with the new ones I can transmit at 5W instead of 2W... at least until it gets to one battery bar, after which it automatically falls back to 0.5W. Hopefully two fully charged units will get through the entire run at 5W transmission - I'll have to test on the 20th!

 

The reason you heard her voice more than others was that she was the middle MINI. There were times that we heard Edge and Scavenger did not, and visa versa. Yes, she likes to socialize, talk, and comment..... That won't change and I don't want her to change that because it bothers some of the members.

I also really don't give a #$&% about protocol of proper radio usage. We are not trying to land a plane or disarm a bomb. Don't like what's on the radio, do like PGT, turn it off and follow the MINI in front.

The purpose of this thread is to find more power and to use the "bubble wrap" radios we all have. That is why I wanted to see if there is a mobile repeater for the FRS/GMRS radios because I have a license and can use it.

 

nevermind

 

You know, as I re-read my post, I think it may be read out of context.....

PGT, by no means do I think that you are attacking MINInurse. What I am saying is that she should not have to change because her character bothers some members.

I wanted to clarify this because I have had and have seen other posts get out of hand because the way the post was written.

 

I did some looking into this a few weeks ago and found a VHF (edit; it's UHF... my bad) radio set supplier that understood my need for better FRS/GMRS transmissions for a club drive. He said that the primary benefit for me would be to get a good sized antenna outside of the car, but legal regs require a built-in antenna.

I decided to up the power as well... got a 45watt in-dash unit and a magnetic mount antenna to pull out when needed. It will work on channels 1-7 on a reduced power output, have listen only on 8-14 and have up to 45 watts transmit on channels above that.