Whats the Max horsehopower you can get on a Mini Cooper without doing anything too extreme? I want to get my cooper to atleast 165-170 HorsePower. Possible?

 

You have a bit of a problem, note bolded above. As too being possible... I don't believe too many know.

My suggested route:

1) Head, all major gains require the head be reworked.
2) Cam, to optimize the head.
3) Intake/Header/Exhaust, more optimization
4) Software, the real HP go-getter. Spare no expense here.

Theoretically, you might be in the realm of your goals with the above. Other upgrades to consider include injectors, clutch, flywheel (its light already tho), light crank pully, and AC delete.

Honestly, I believe it will take an "extreme" amount of expenditures to achieve your goals.

 

Simple solution...buy an S.

You will spend more trying to meet that goal on a Cooper and you will be taking the engine and transmission to places where they were not intended to be.

 

except, 170 hp on a na would be better than having boost lag no? I think a cooper pushing the same numbers would infact be a much faster and fun car. I still would like to know what it would ACTUALLY take for the cooper to outperform the s. I dont believe it would take the same hp at all... just my theory though

 

It's not going to be cheap to get to 170 HP for a normal aspirated engine.

Turbo MC is possible. Might take some effort.

Nitrous MC has been done.

145+ HP would be possible with simple bolt on upgrades (plus ported and polished cylinder heads/ schrick cam).

ECU reflash would help but gains are limited because the MC ECU is already pretty optimized.

Realistically 170 HP would be tough to get and also would be tough on the stock transmission.

 

The S has a supercharger, there is no boost lag. With the same HP the Cooper will be faster because it is 200lbs lighter.

 

One in every non-S thread.

In all respect, due to depreciation it will cost me approx $10k to "upgrade" to an S. $15k if I want it to be JCW. Of course noting that the MCS transmission and engine wasn't intended to cope with the levels currently being explored.

Besides, in the interest of growth, wouldn't we all want to see it done.

 

just having YOUR cooper beat a cooper S is worth the effort.... lets start a cooper only club , named COOPER S KILLERS... hehe....

just joking, i think this club would be a very exclusive club with just a very few members cause of the cost to make it happen....

although maybe next year ill do the cilinderhead and look around for a new intake manifold ?

cheers....

 

165hp without extreme mods... Possible? No.

 

Maybe you should have checked before you made that comment, but I own a Cooper, not an S, and with no regrets. My comment was meant to say that the best way to get 170bhp was to just decide that that was what you wanted in the first place and get the S.

And really, a well-driven Cooper with good tires and suspension can beat an S in the twisties. Off the line and in the straights the S is going to win but how much does that really matter? The joy of the MINI is the handling and the cornering. When you look at it that way the Cooper is the little MINI that could.

 

absolutely agree that the Cooper is about efficiency and finesse - there's something satisfying about a great handling car that gets 30+ mpg and puts a smile on your face when you drive it. No offense whatsoever intended - the question is reasonable, but I believe the answer is as Snid said above - no, you aren't going to get that kind of power w/o extreme mods. I believe that trying to go above about 130 "real" hp in a Cooper is subject to the law of diminishing returns. God bless and good luck to you if you want to go for it, but it ain't gonna be cost effective . . .

 

for some reason I thought there was lag from a supercharger as well? mabye lag is the wrong term. idk

 

I was just asking if it was possible. Im not planning on doing it. Just curious. I wouldn't want to buy a cooper S, I love the hood lines in the cooper too much. Im just going to do some minor tweeks. Exhuast, UniChip, Intake, and a stronger clutch set up.

 

Possible, yes. Not easy though.

Intake
Throttlebody
plugs/wires
Coil
ECU
header
cat-back exhaust
ported and polished cylinderheads, modified valves
race camshaft

Depending on your choices realistically speaking I only see about 35 to 40 additional HP from these upgrades. You'd need the ECU tuned specifically for your exact upgrades.

The predictable downside to all this performance tuning that I'd expect is reduced mpg. I hate when that happens.

The Base Cooper has alot going for it. Styling, lighter weight, less complicated- minus supercharger/intercooler, possible brake-suspension-alignment upgrades to the max.

For any MINI it's the handling that is superb not so much the power. Even a 200 HP MCS is lacking for power on a long track.

You don't really need tons of HP in an MC to do well. First go lightweight- this means leave out the heavy stuff that is optional (sunroof, custom audio/video upgrades, etc), try to keep the rims and tires as light as possible and choose rubber that is sticky- Max performance summer tires over all season tires if possible.

Maximize traction- good gearing helps- learn how to drive the CVT really well or stick with the 5 speed manual. A Quaife differential is expensive but good if you want optimal traction. Skip the electronic traction control when possible. Lightweight flywheel and racing clutch are nice but add to the cost and reduce street drivability.

Finally, and more important that any power upgrade is driving skill. A novice driver with the best upgraded MC isn't going to do the car justice whether on the street or the track. Sure it will be fun to drive but only by allowing your driving skill to advance will you fully realize the potential of the MINI. A stock MC with some light rims and good tires is fully capable of kicking some sports car butt.

 

I have never driven a cooper but those that I know who have really like them... claim the throttle response is crisper and the lack of power does not seem to be an issue at least at the dragon...... I think it would be fun to do some things to a Cooper..... I would probably take its strong suit (handling) and make it as strong as possible before doing much to the engine..... would I miss the 6 speed gear box?

 

Everything that has been done to upgrade the MCS to improve handling can be done for the MC. Plus you have less total weight with the MC. Same deal on the brakes- all upgrades possible for the MCS apply to the MC plus the advantage of lighter weight.

So given that, even a modest and usable increase in power say 140 HP plus added torque from bolt on upgrades (not enough to stress the transmission) would be quite a good combo. Plus this is all without a turbo or supercharger.

You still get a bit of the drive by wire lag but it's workable. And for MCS owners- how much do you really get to use your 6th gear? For cruising on the freeway and for really long stretches of track. For me the first 4 gears are the ones I use the most whether on the track or on the street.

So what is the worst thing(to decrease performance) you can do with an MC? Add weight. Add big 18" wheels. Don't check your tire pressures.

 

I agree the best mods for the MC is to maximize the handling. That's why I'm staying with 15" holies with 195/55/15 summer tires, no sunroof, no gadgets, staying as light as I could (dumped the spare too). The only mod I have is the 18mm H&R rear sway bar and a dual exhaust just to make it sound cool

For street use it is a lot of fun, I can pull just over 0.9g in the corners, very stable handling even on bumpy surfaces, great gas mileage (horrible tire wear though, but that's the way I drive), and it even rides good enough that I never feel beat up or tired after a long drive.

Sure it doesn't have the power to accelerate up to 120mph in a flash, but there is no place in the public road system to do that anyway, or risk going to jail. But I can corner fast and enjoy the grip and the handling pretty much any where!

 

I think your MC setup is very practical and reasonable. Public roads don't allow for high speeds it's true. No speed limit going from 0-35 mph as long as no one is watching you burn out conspicuously.

When you wear out your stock shocks you might consider Koni FSD shocks.
And when your tires do wear out then treat yourself to a new set- they are so good when new- such a treat.

Maybe later add an intake- make more noise.

 

another endorsement here for the virtues of light weight Coopers. I studied the forums and test drove different cars w/ different equipment levels before I ordered my '06. You can absolutely tell a "seat of the pants" difference between a Cooper with 16 or 17 inch wheels & runflats & one w/15" holies & conventional tires. I ordered my car with the holies, no sunroof and the "standard" suspension. Went with a 19mm Hsport rear bar, Mymini touring exhaust & ITG dropin filter & the car is a blast to drive. Next week I'm putting on 195/60/15 Toyo VR tires, and there's a set of JCW springs in the garage waiting for my checking account to OK companion FSD shocks. I'm following the GIAC software saga elsewhere in this forum and will probably go that route. So do your homework like you're doing, go for whatever mods you think will make a meaningful difference for you, and know that whatever HP gains you realize, you're going to have fun

 

That's what I did. I have everything suspension and braking you can possibly put on. The car handles great. It has roll...although, the only roll I can get out of it is when I shake the car and the tires flex. And I'm running 35 series tires. I have a few more things to do before I start on the motor but I am contimplating on doing a 10K or more redline NA motor which WILL yield me 200 BHP or the more complicated turbo setup to where I will want to reach 4-550 BHP. I think the NA motor would be cool. You can all say I'm crazy but it's possible. And my mini in the sig is a very old pic. It looks nothing like that anymore.

 

LOL, it is the same thing here, when I try to shake the car by pushing on the roof, only the tire flexes. You gotta try racing slicks, I had some 205/50/15 slicks on before, and that barely flexed at all

When my warranty runs out I definitely will look into doing something like that as well!

 

haha stick some rcompounds and your car will be like pushing against a wall =]

I can see it now

-standing in random parking lot- "go ahead, push it.. just push it!"

 

If I put slicks on...I probably won't be able to turn the mass. Cooper power!

 

hey Minihune, love your posts on this....

i have a MC with obx header and SS catback , CAI pipercross viper and i really love it,

i drive on 15" , 175 R65 (i think, not really sure the exact specs)
but they are stock,

i would like to buy some new 17 "wheels later, maybe next year , but only for the optical point of view that is,

but for now i will stick with my lightweight 15"s but i would need to get some new tires , which size and type of tire do u recommend for maximum sporty street use ?

would u recommend a tire that is wider or stiffer....

thx

 

miniracer1,
For your stock 15x5.5" rims you can look first at 205/55-15 tire size which is both wider and stiffer sidewall than you are using now. You increase weight, rolling resistance and cost of each tire but you improve handling alot but retain some comfort for daily street use.

Check with alex@tirerack.com for various tires in your price range and for your weather conditions. If you have virtually no winter you can run summer tires all year but if you have lots of rain or light snow then All season tires might be best. If you have a real winter then separate winter tires are needed but then you can use Ultra High performance or Max performance summer tires for the rest of the year. See BF Goodrich g-Force T/A KDW2 for $70 each.

The more the rolling resistance the less your mpg will be, wide tires don't cut through snow as well, and the highest performance tires will cost more and wear out faster. A good compromise can be Ultra High performance all season tires. See Continental ContiExtremeContact $79 each.

See also BF Goodrich Traction T/A V high performance All season tire for $81 each.

Note there are other better more expensive tires that Alex can discuss with you.